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Old 07-22-2009, 11:15 AM   #57
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Airforums = no liability protection - its not a club

Again - not trying to be difficult - but these are the facts.

Ken J.
I'm going to a rally in a few weeks that just would not be happening if it weren't for the WBCCI liability protection
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:49 PM   #58
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Airforums = no liability protection - its not a club
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Originally Posted by RoverOwner View Post
I'm going to a rally in a few weeks that just would not be happening if it weren't for the WBCCI liability protection
Yup...me too! We are co-hosting a large (70+ trailer) rally that wouldn't be happening w/o the liability coverage of the WBCCI.

Shari
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:24 PM   #59
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If you don't have a club and you tell people with airstreams that you are going to be camping at campground X and you say come on lets have some fun. I don't see a liability issue. You get your spot they pay for their spot. No meetings, no uniforms, or club memberships... Just folks getting together and having a good times with their airstreams. For the fun of it you could give an unofficial name to your outting.



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Old 07-22-2009, 06:29 PM   #60
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I guess Im not very well informed. What are these two liability policies for that I pay for every month?. IF I go to an AIRFORUMS rally or to any campground my policies cover any mistakes I make as an individual. Im just not understanding why these rallys would not occur be it not for WBCCI.
Please inform me.
Thanks
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:52 PM   #61
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So Brian - you say "lets have a forum rally" - you have folks call the campground and make there reservations, everyone shows up and Roger trips over the camp table.

He calls his lawyer - "who put this rally together" - "well its a forum rally" "whos the forum rally?" Well "Brian posted to the forums that we should all meet at xyz park" "oh so Brian was in charge of putting this rally on?" Bingo

Not too far fetched of a senerio - yes it may be frivolous maybe not - either way it will cost Brian a bunch of money to prove he didn't hold the rally or was not responsible for Rogers broken leg.

As you say our liablility insurance covers you for things you do to other property, or if someone is hurt on your property - it would not, nor would you want it to, cover you for something like this.

The fact that you went on to say "for fun will give it a name" I would think would further someones case that it is a sponsored event put on by someone.

Roger, you say the same thing - your liablity insurance pays for mistakes you make - the WBCCI insurance that we have as a club protects those of us who put on rallies from any lawsuit that someone may bring against us at a rally.

This is the reason why the WBCCI and other organizations carry insurance.

Ken J.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:15 PM   #62
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Group picture from a 4CU rally earlier this year. Check out the uniforms...
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:38 PM   #63
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Well If I fall over a camp table and break my leg it will be my responsibility not the campground. Cause I probably dragged the table there in the first place. That's a problem with today's society.TO MANY AMBULANCE Chasers or people who want someone else to take responsibility for their mistakes. My insurance will cover my leg and I will not sue the campground for something I did. I am going to a Rally next week but I would never think of sueing my friend who helped set up the rally by starting the ball rolling by merely contacting the campground and setting a date and saying "HEY GANG LETS GO CAMPIN" ?? we are gonna be here on this date. Where is it his responsiblilty that clumsy me triped over a table and broke my leg. ??
It ok U all go and do what u need too Without me.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:58 PM   #64
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Roger - I believe you -I really do, but not everyone thinks the way you an I do - as you said - Ambulance chasers and folks who don't want to take responsibility - who would have ever thought spilling a hot coffee on themselves at McDonalds would end up being a mutli million lawsuit because they were not warned the coffee was hot....?? Or the guy who attempts suicide in a NY subway - jumps in, lives and sues the train? There are actually people (other than lawyers) out there who make their living by suing other people.

Oh the insurance company may cover your leg - but they may also go after your friend Brian because they don't want to be out any money....

We do live in a crazy world...

Ken J.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:04 PM   #65
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My insurance will cover my leg and I will not sue the campground for something I did. I am going to a Rally next week but I would never think of sueing my friend
Actually, Roger, that's not how it works. Your insurance will cover your leg and then your insurance company will sue your friend to get their money back. It's called subrogation. If you read the fine print in your insurance policy you will see that The Insured (that's you) agrees to assist your insurance company in recovering any money due them as a result of money paid out for your care.

See the attached scan of a subrogation questionnaire that I received in the mail not too long ago. If you twist your ankle stepping in a gopher hole, they want to know where it was. If it was in your neighbor's yard, they want to know the name of his insurance company. The lawyers got ya comin' and goin'.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:22 PM   #66
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People get together and meet to snow ski, water ski, mountain climb or go bicycling as a group.. Think about it. I tell people I am going bicycling this Saturday and ask friends to join me for a bike ride does that make me liable if one person gets run over? When one person asks a bunch of friends to ride Harleys on the weekend and one of the bikers hits a tree are the other bikers liable? When people take their boats to the lake and have a boat party out in a cove is the person with the idea liable if there is an accident. Think about it. I better not ask friends to got out to eat because if my friends trip over a chair and break their neck that would make me liable for organizing a dinner with friends.

When I go camping I book the site for my wife and I. Not for anybody else. I tell them when I am going to be there and if they decide to join us they need to book in advance. Everybody is on their own. I could see if you reserved sites for 20 people and put them under your name. Then it would be a possiblity of you being liable.

When I go to the Okeefenokee swamp with 12 guys every year we all sign and take responsibilty for ourselves. We rent cabins and boats. I have done it for 5 years now. Nobody is worried about a law suit and we do not have a club with an agenda.

I have been getting together with friends in different situations my whole life. My buddy just took a bunch of friends in his RV to go see ZZ Top. There were no forms signed, or waivers.

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Old 07-22-2009, 08:44 PM   #67
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:52 PM   #68
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To answer your question, Brian, is yes you could be liable - however the key word you use is friends - if you start a new club, you really don't know who's going to join.

And then theres the issue of dues - IRS (sorry I'm a CPA) says your income is all money you receive unless specifically excluded by code - so any money you collect is potentially includeable in your income.

Sorry.......
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:12 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J View Post
Airforums = no liability protection - its not a club

Again - not trying to be difficult - but these are the facts.

Ken J.
I have had a business for the past 9 years and just started another. The IRS just wants their cut and that is no big deal.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:16 PM   #70
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So Brian - you say "lets have a forum rally" - you have folks call the campground and make there reservations, everyone shows up and Roger trips over the camp table.

He calls his lawyer - "who put this rally together" - "well its a forum rally" "whos the forum rally?" Well "Brian posted to the forums that we should all meet at xyz park" "oh so Brian was in charge of putting this rally on?" Bingo

Not too far fetched of a senerio - yes it may be frivolous maybe not - either way it will cost Brian a bunch of money to prove he didn't hold the rally or was not responsible for Rogers broken leg.

As you say our liablility insurance covers you for things you do to other property, or if someone is hurt on your property - it would not, nor would you want it to, cover you for something like this.

The fact that you went on to say "for fun will give it a name" I would think would further someones case that it is a sponsored event put on by someone.

Roger, you say the same thing - your liablity insurance pays for mistakes you make - the WBCCI insurance that we have as a club protects those of us who put on rallies from any lawsuit that someone may bring against us at a rally.

This is the reason why the WBCCI and other organizations carry insurance.

Ken J.
IS THE $%#& WBCCI the only people able to get insurance? KEEP YOUR CLUB, no one is asking you to give it up.
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