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Old 09-26-2009, 08:57 AM   #141
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For you....

Try sunny-side-up with a smile....
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Old 09-26-2009, 09:50 AM   #142
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Frank,

It may surprise you to learn that I am in about 95% agreement with everything you said here.

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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Going to International was a huge mistake. I would have been better served staying home and remaining blissfully ignorant to what goes on out there.
I really don't know you, aside from your forum posts, but I do get the impression that you had unrealistic expectations of the International. Apparently some "elders" of your unit thought the same thing and tried to dissuade you. Now you have seen for yourself and were unimpressed.

Before we went to our first International (Bozeman) the "elders" of our unit held a meeting of the newbies to tell us what and what not to do. I remember wondering after the meeting why we wanted to go.

International can be quite enjoyable, from the standpoint of meeting friends from all over the country, but it helps to be able to shrug off minor annoyances. Frankly, after I am finished with what I perceive to be my obligations as a unit officer, we probably won't attend any more Internationals. To me the game is not worth the candle.

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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
I see a sinking ship that is out of touch with reality.
I'd say you rate average in perception. Any organization that has been losing members for the last 20 years and is starting to hemorrhage money certainly has some problems.

But discern that this is taking place in the "international" club--many units, like yours and mine, are highly successful.

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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
I will most likely renew my membership but only because I can camp with my unit.
Aye, there's the rub, isn't it. I sometimes feel like our units are being held hostage by the "international" club. To participate in our much-loved units we have to pay dues to an organization that we have little use for. Our unit dues, for members who receive the newsletter electronically, are currently only 1/8 of the total dues.

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And just to call it as I see it... the statement "I am sticking it out so I can effect change" that is hog wash. Those who use that line are full of it. You ain't changing jack. 2020 study... 2020? This is 2009!
Ya gotta be patient. The system is rigged against change, but the loss of membership, and more to the point, the loss of money, cannot be ignored forever. If those in charge resist change to the bitter end, the change may take the form of the current WBCCI, Inc. going bankrupt. If it comes to that, my hope is that the successful units can regenerate a new and much less top-heavy international organization. All we really need from the international is the common identity (name and logo), the insurance, and inter-unit communications medium (web site and maybe Blue Beret). Region and International rallies and caravans are nice, but not essential. Most of these functions could be handled by units.

Cheers,
Nuvi
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:02 AM   #143
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Nuvi, good post that I somewhat agree with even though not a WBCCI member. Would change be effected quicker if units like yours withdrew from the international organization? That would force either the international to do something (unlikely) or the newly independent units could band together and create an organization that people like me would be interested in joining (more likely).

Some people have investigated the idea of creating a entirely new organization and found out how difficult that is, but with a core of independent units it would be somewhat easier. The biggest problems would be insurance and starting to build a reserve fund.

A lot of us are sitting on the sidelines watching this slow motion train wreck and interested enough in an organization of Airstream owners to keep watching for reasons other than the fascination with train wrecks.

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Old 09-26-2009, 10:48 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Ya gotta be patient
Nuvi,
For those of us with kids, there is no time to be patient. They grow up way too fast... and for us, NOW is the time.

I knew Frank had unrealistic expectations for the International, but that is Frank, he is 110% in everything he does and expects the same from others. That is why I like to hang out with him and his family. You are always guaranteed to to experience joy beyond all expectations.

I too, was disappointed with the International, but for me it was just an education on how best to proceed. The change needs to come from the bottom. In that effort, a number of us are working on hosting an event that offers an opportunity to share the talents of the many great folks we have in this club. We did a little practice "gathering" this last August and it was fantastic.

The Madison International made it very clear to me that we actually have two clubs. It would be very unfortunate if the actions of one "club" ends up killing the other. Which one is doing the killing depends on which club you ask.
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:00 PM   #145
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If at first you don't secede, try, try again?

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Would change be effected quicker if units like yours withdrew from the international organization? That would force either the international to do something (unlikely) or the newly independent units could band together and create an organization that people like me would be interested in joining (more likely).
Gene,

I think you answered your own question. Units could split off and become independent, but I doubt it would have much effect on the executive committee. And the new independent unit would have to give up its history and identity going back to Wally Byam.

Early in this thread I wondered if Frank was going to work to get the WDCU to do just that, but the idea seems to have lost momentum.

Let me emphasize that you are more than welcome to join a progressive unit of WBCCI had have fun with them without paying any attention to the international level politics. I would say that the majority of WBCCI members do just that.

In your neck of the woods, the Denver, Colorado unit has a good reputation (and is very well represented on these forums.) WBCCI DenCO Unit - "The" Denver Airstream Club

On the other hand, if you are unwilling to join on principle because you refuse to support a layer of management that you find irritating, then you'll have to wait till someone starts another club or the train wreckage finally grinds to a halt. . .

Cheers,
Nuvi
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:12 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by byamcaravanner View Post
Nuvi,
For those of us with kids, there is no time to be patient. They grow up way too fast... and for us, NOW is the time.
Steve,

I'm not sure what your point is. All of the successful, growing WBCCI units that I know of are kid-friendly. That is part of the reason for our success. In the Wisconsin Unit we try to make all our rallies kid-friendly and we try to have at least one rally every year, Camp Airstream, especially for kids.

I don't remember if you were at the Camp Airstream rally at Pipe, Wisconsin on Lake Winnebago last August. We were kind of spread out in the park and I know I didn't see everybody. I do know that we had a bunch of kids and a bunch of activities for them. The attached pictures show a couple of them. I'm not sure exactly what they are doing in the first picture. I'm pretty sure the multi-colored objects being thrown in the air in the second picture are water balloons. . .

My point being, the kids don't care about the international club politics, they just want to have fun at the rallies they attend.

Best regards,
Nuvi
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:40 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Gene,

I think you answered your own question. Units could split off and become independent, but I doubt it would have much effect on the executive committee. And the new independent unit would have to give up its history and identity going back to Wally Byam.

Let me emphasize that you are more than welcome to join a progressive unit of WBCCI had have fun with them without paying any attention to the international level politics.
On the other hand, if you are unwilling to join on principle because you refuse to support a layer of management that you find irritating, then you'll have to wait till someone starts another club or the train wreckage finally grinds to a halt. . .

Cheers,
Nuvi
Nuvi, the advantage of writing the question is I get to answer it too, but my answers were speculative. A number of growing units withdrawing would possibly shake up even the present WBCCI leadership, but who knows for sure. They could get even more defensive. Certainly a group of units representing a significant number of members could appoint some leaders to approach the international group to negotiate change with the threat of leaving the WBCCI if change isn't coming. This will take experienced negotiators because it won't be easy.

I suspect the WBCCI leaders are fighting a holding action and some may even know it, but it will take some time to find out. Certainly when the reserves are exhausted, something nasty will happen—perhaps dues will be substantially increased. That will reduce membership even more, perhaps by a lot.

History and identity are important, but the question about that is what's the most important priority? Change or not? Any Airstream owners' group will have history behind them even if it's not called "WBCCI" and may carry on the traditions better than the WBCCI—anyway, traditions change with the times.

As I've posted before, I don't see why I should send money to an organization that does things that I disagree with. It only funds the train wreck and increases the slow motion nature of it.

I agree there are progressive units. We attended one 4CU rally last year and just met some 4CU members after the official rally was over in NM. We enjoyed both experiences.

I admire those who are trying to change the WBCCI, but it seems like the myth of Sisyphus in action to me. Thus, I think something more drastic is called for. That is unfortunate. A powerful coalition of units may be able to change all this before the money runs out, membership plummets more and the name of the WBCCI is further trashed. If not, keep the coalition together, leave the ship before it sinks with you on it, and call it AOA or something and have rallies.

Another possible result is that the WBCCI crashes, nothing replaces it and the good units are swimming upstream alone; then the Air Forum will have completely replaced the WBCCI and maybe that is the best result.

Gene
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Old 09-26-2009, 05:53 PM   #148
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I am not sure who can add the specifics of this information or if I can look it up but I had learned that at one time the Classic Airstream Club (the CAC) intraclub was going to sucede from WBCCI and was then negotiated into remaining.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:15 PM   #149
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I am not sure who can add the specifics of this information or if I can look it up but I had learned that at one time the Classic Airstream Club (the CAC) intraclub was going to secede from WBCCI and was then negotiated into remaining.
If I remember correctly, it was the other way around--the CAC started out as a separate club and was talked into becoming an intra-club of the WBCCI. Maybe there's a CAC member on the forums who can tell us.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:24 PM   #150
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Found it. Yes the CAC was independent!!!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/401019-post10.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight
Briefly the Classic Airstream Club is an IntraClub of the WBCCI although
from 1999 to 2003 the core group, almost all WBCCI members also, was
chartered as an independent club (Classic Caravan Club). In 2003 the CCC
voted to become an Intra Club of WBCCI.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:43 PM   #151
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Name Suggestion

for the new club.......

"Byam's Incredible Ghosts" and it's acronym would be the "BIG" club

Individual numbers would be affixed using transparent film.

Sometimes I crack myself up, even without Jack (Daniels).

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Old 09-26-2009, 09:04 PM   #152
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CMSgt, pass that Jack Daniels around!

How about a Keep It Simple Stupid name...

Wally Byam Airstream Club

Hell, add the word "International", if you want to.

I bet that would stir the hornet's nest!
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Old 09-27-2009, 12:35 AM   #153
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I remain a member so I can belong to our local unit. I don't have a real interest to attend any international rally at this point, only the local ones. Of course, it helps being in a unit that believes in having fun!
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:05 AM   #154
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Quote:
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Steve,

I'm not sure what your point is...
Nuvi,

I commented on your reply to Frank's post about how his attending the Madison International was a mistake. You told him to "be patient"... I am telling you that families with kids can't be patient... the kids grow up, can't change that... can't wait for the International to slowly change.

We did not make the Pipe rally, having just returned from the "Bakers Acres, Just Camping, Family get Together" in Central NY. This was the prototype for an annual family oriented camping event that will be announced in the near future.

We enjoy the WI unit events... and have no issues with the local stuff. But, IMO, the International event should reflect the best of what we do at the local level. It did not even resemble any small aspect of what is being done by the membership during the camping season.
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