Pontiac Dies Monday

[Distantdrummer]

Sad sad day. Strong rumor is GM will jettison Pontiac Motor Division in announcement next Monday.

I had hoped that they might Re-name Saturn as Oldsmobile with Saturn being a model and Group Pontiac and Olds (Saturn) in a much slimmer offering of models.

It's all over I am afraid. (In lots of familliar names in many fields).

Only Pontiac my family ever owned was a 1960 Catalina, but I always liked alot of what they did prior to the 80s I guess.

[CanoeStream]

I hear Saturn has been shopped around. Maybe a buyout by private investors?

There's a new Camaro. But the Firebird is gone? It's a brave new world. Save us Wally...

[Boondocker]

I'm not sure I even know someone who owns a Pontiac.

[Airslide]

1964 Pontiac Grand Prix with a big 421...

[Silvertwinkie]

Rumor mill says Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, Opel, Saab (not really a rumor in terms of Saab) are history. GM will likely look like Chevy, GMC, Buick and Cadillac. The bells started to go off when they ditched Olds....and if you think Olds is coming back anytime soon you'll be in for a lengthy wait.

Being a big GM fan, I can say that frankly if you bought a Caprice, the same car in different trim was an Impala SS, Buick Roadmaster and with a few mods, a Cadillac Fleetwood and at one point an Olds Custom Cruiser. I mean really, just how many versions of the same car do you need? Chevy Cavilier was a Caddy Cimmeron and at one point also a Pontiac Sunfire and a Buick something or other. GM was way too heavy on the brands and like Airstream tried to be everything to everyone. You see what is happening out of Jackson Center lately-- many models dropped.

Personally I think Chrysler is finished, which of course included Dodge. If Chrysler goes to the courts again, it may simply be to liquidate at this point.

Thing that I find amazing is that the CAW is holding Chrysler hostage like the bond holders are holding GM....they really think they are going to get some really good deal and in reality, what they will wind up with in Chrysler's case, no jobs and in GMs case, .30 on the dollar at first if GM takes it to bankruptcy which is looking more and more possible and also possibly no jobs as well. Anyone in the Detroit, Flint metro area want to comment on the status of car manufacturing plants? Seen pics of buildings being torn down left and right.

Ford is, out of the big three in the best possible position. They have Ford, Mercury and Lincoln, the good better best type example GM is going to have to replicate with Chevy, Buick and Caddy- with GMC being an upscale of Chevy since there are no in betweens from Chevy to Caddy in Buickland.

Any car company that can survive this quasi depression with loans or not is going to be in a far stronger position than they ever were pre-quasi depression. Question is, who will make it. I know of few if any that are doing well lately....there are just different degrees of pain, no matter what company you happen to be......

Problem is that if any of the domestics go south, it's not going to be pretty for the rest that are still left and if GM does fail, it will be far more reaching than most folks realize.

[overlander63]

GM can ditch GMC as well, honestly all a GMC consists of is a Chevy truck with a different badge. There was a time when GMC had some unique products, and their products were a bit better quality.
I guess if they really wanted to keep the brand, they could drop the Chevrolet brand from the truck marque, and have only GMC.
You would then at least in theory have Chevrolet, Buick, and Cadillac, with GMC being the truck brand.
I don't even want to think about what would happen if GM went under completely. If you think things are bad now economically, wait until one in five is out of work.
If Chrysler went under, there would be a significant loss to the mid-and-heavy truck market as well. Chrysler owns Sterling Trucks, as well as Freightliner.

[Tom Nugler]

Down here at the dealership level the consolidations have been going on for the last 3 or 4 years. And it hasn’t been pretty. When Olds folded we hired 4 of 8 techs from the shop down the street when it closed its doors. We thought the service business would follow. Despite acquiring their customer database and advertising nothing ever materialized. 2 of the original 4 were let go within the year.
18 months later the owner was pressured to sell out the Buick line to a larger Pontiac/GMC Truck dealer down the street the other direction. It took 12 months to hammer out a deal and a rumored 4 million from GM to sweeten the pot.
When I started working at this dealer 17 years ago, after they bought our VW franchise, there were 11 GM techs booking 50 to 60 hours a week. There were only 4 left to load their toolboxes onto a flatbed towtruck for the 1 mile ride up the street. In the 9 months before they left they were generally idle most of the afternoon.
They’ve told us the most of their old customers have stopped coming in. Apparently a combo of a dirty, run down, truck shop and being shorn like sheep didn’t sit well. GM put their money on the street side, not the back.
They’ve seen the writing on the wall for years. I’m afraid their future is looking pretty grim.
I think Terry is right that Chevy should have gotten out of the truck market. Way too many overlapping models.
It now looks like Chrysler will file for Chapter 11 next week clearing the way for a Fiat merger/takeover.

Good luck to all, we'll need it.

Tom

[wingfoot321]

We have lost two gm dealerships this month.

McMinneville, Tn GMC,Buick, Pontiac (no GM dealer in this small town)
Cookeville, TN GMC, Buick, Pontiac (Chevy dealer still here)

Rumor is more to follow.

[SteSpot]

I grew up in a GM loyal family--my dad always drove an Oldsmobile, other family members drove Buicks...so when my job at the LA Times offered a company car -(domestic brand only) I had various GM cars the last one being a Pontiac Grand Prix. Iniatially I loved the car but when it started dying on me in the middle of the freeway and when they could never ever determine why and fix it, I faith began to wane......each time I was towed to the dealership, I would ask the tow driver what cars they never got to tow and the answer was always a Honda...anyway I had a GM credit card with 5000$ towards a new GM car......so I bought a Buick Rendevous (wanted all wheel drive for going to the mountains)...and sold it before the warranty went out.....I spent too much time at the service shop for too many "issues"....now I have a Subaru........meanwhile our Toyota truck got up to over 250,000 miles before we sold it with never a problem......I feel sad for the current conditions for GM and although I always wanted a Camaro (don't ask me why) there is probably no way I would consider buying another GM vehicle......well maybe I could be enticed to drive a Chevy Silverado truck......I just wish they could get their act together to build reliable vehicles......I am sure I am not the only person who has had a bad experience like this. pj

[centennialman]

I have always driven a Chevy and will as long as they are around. Never had trouble with any of them and have been driving for 40 years.

[PizzaChop]

As a small business owner, for years I have wondered how UAW contracts (at least the details I'd read about) could be sustained forever and ever. I guess that question has been answered.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid this could only be the tip of the iceberg as Americans begin to realize that our prosperity as a nation is not a birthright, but rather a logical result of individual freedom and responsibility (morals and ethics), thrift, and high levels of innovation and productivity.

At some point, market forces (the collective will of individual producers and consumers) will punish unsustainable business models (and labor contracts). Unfortunately, it is likely that we'll undergo a round or two of "demand stimulation" before we realize that it is pointless to try to prop up failing industries, rather than allowing the market to reallocate capital and labor resources.

GM could've entered bankruptcy proceedings long before the embarassment of a "ceremonial" firing of the CEO by our president. Now it looks like they'll end up in bankruptcy anyway. The UAW will likely end up owning the worthless shares of what was once known as General Motors.

We'll miss the Firebird, though. (We can always rent "Smokey and the Bandit")

[PeeWee]

The Catalina with a full towing package, and all of the upgrade options was a wonderful tow vehicle.

Pee Wee

[PeeWee]

In the Summer of 1964 I was stationed at Ft. Dix, NJ. I took leave and spent the time with my Mother at the 1964 International Rally in Princeton, NJ.

I met a fellow Airstreamer, Cory Kammler. Cory just happened to be a Pontiac dealer.

Guess what? The GTO was just too much of a temptation. The picture shows the exact model of my wonderful pet, the purring cat.

Those were the days when they built automobiles. At 25 what a ride, what a trip and what fun. We won't talk about how fast. 4 gears, with a close-gear Hurst. (Should I mention rubber in all four gears.)

Toast Pontiac!

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by overlander63

GM can ditch GMC as well,

If Chrysler went under, there would be a significant loss to the mid-and-heavy truck market as well. Chrysler owns Sterling Trucks, as well as Freightliner.

I totally agree with the GMC thing, however I am not certain the second quoted part is 100% accurate. Freightliner owned Sterling (Sterling was once owned by Ford, then as of March 2009 Sterling was supposed to have been phased out according to Daimler-AG) and Daimler-AG(formerly Daimler-Benz, formerly Daimler-Chrysler) owns Freightliner. Daimler-AG also still owns a part stake in Chrysler (roughly 20%), however, the majority stake Diamler held in Chrysler was sold to Cerberus Capital Management.

If or perhaps I should say when Chrysler files for some form of Bankruptcy, be it liquidation or creditor protection, large truck fleet lines will most likely continue since the mid and heavy trucks mentioned are not in any way onwed by Chrysler as far as I can tell, they are fully owned by Daimler-AG (even though Sterling was supposed to phased out last month-- not sure if it happened).

You can read about it here:

Daimler-Benz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freightliner_Trucks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Trucks

One of my biggest concerns is if Chrysler files for liquidation, what would it take for China, who is looking to enter the North American marketplace from scooping up what's left. It would be far easier to scoop up Chrysler assets in liquidation than to build a network from scratch (and cheaper)....and we all know how good the Chineese make things loaded with toxins......and they have all that money from all the junk we buy at Wally World, Target, etc).

[53flyingcloud]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

I'm not sure I even know someone who owns a Pontiac.

You don't know me but..
I once owned the 2nd Pontiac Firebird sold in Va..While packing for my move, I came across the original owners paper/ owner's manual~!! WOW..
A/C was a BIG DEAL then...lol
For just a little over 3k$ and, changes, I bought my 1967 Firebird..
Gonna miss seeing the the nameplate on the road..

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Chrysler as far as I can tell, they are fully owned by Daimler-AG (even though Sterling was supposed to phased out last month-- not sure if it happened).

Sterling has only phased out the medium duty part of their product lines. One of those product was a rebadged Ram 3500. The big stuff, such as the truck formerly known as the Ford Louisville series, are still in production. For now.

[henw]

I see little hope for GM. They'll have to build low profit margin econo/fuel vehicles under government direction. Road worthy lawn mowers. Baby buggy segways.
Ford should be able to address this market along with the family cars/trucks people really want.
The whole group that prays for gasprices to go over $4-5/gal are the ones that scare me to death.

Tom

[Gael79]

Hey Tom, Right On!!! I wonder how much the expensive gas last year drove the economy to this point? Funny huh, record high gas prices in 2008, depressed economy in 2009.

I am driving a 2001 Grand Am GT as a daily commuter, 50 miles a day each way. 165,000 miles and counting. Had the heads off last year at 148,000 miles, as preventative, to change the head gaskets, because this type of engine has a history of blowing stock gaskets after 150K. No abnormal signs of wear noted. Engine does not burn oil, or smoke, and sounds as strong as the day I first started it.

China will never be able to match the quality of the American automobile. But with their cheap wages, and disregard for the environment, I am sure they can build a cheaper one.

Best to all,

[easyride]

Shame to hear Pontiac is going down the tube,kept hoping they would try again with a GTO ,that looks like a GTO should,well I still have my 66,plan on being buried in it.Dave

[53flyingcloud]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

One of my biggest concerns is if Chrysler files for liquidation, what would it take for China, who is looking to enter the North American marketplace from scooping up what's left. It would be far easier to scoop up Chrysler assets in liquidation than to build a network from scratch (and cheaper)....and we all know how good the Chineese make things loaded with toxins......and they have all that money from all the junk we buy at Wally World, Target, etc).

Correct me if I am wrong but, I thought I understood that China was already making Jeep vehicles for internal consumptions?
I don't think they have started to or plan on exporting them "YET" to the USA...