Pontiac Dies Monday

[vswingfield]

The 1968 I learned to drive in was even bigger than a 1964, and it was positively slight compared to Dad's 73. The 60s and 70s cars were huge.

Oh, I got luck on the parallel parking part, a simple straight in. Dad had temporary added curb feeler for the occasion. Ugly, but effective.

[Airboss]

OOPS.. My 79 was a new Bonneville not a Catalina as I said in post #50...

[Jaxon]

Originally Posted by 87MH

It just might be a good thing for Saturn...of all of the GM products, I would most llikely purchase an auto from Saturn.

Now, all of you who voted for the Democratic Candidate last year please line up on the left....

Got a friend who swears by his Saturn(s). Blew the engine through self described negligence and Saturn replaced it gratis! A born again Saturno...

Seems to me that this auto-bank-financial crisis began quite a bit earlier than within the last 100 days. Am thinking that because of it, that's why people lined up on the left... Hopefully, he'll have 8 years to fix what the last 8 broke.

[Airboss]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

Got a friend who swears by his Saturn(s). Blew the engine through self described negligence and Saturn replaced it gratis! A born again Saturno...

Seems to me that this auto-bank-financial crisis began quite a bit earlier than within the last 100 days. Am thinking that because of it, that's why people lined up on the left... Hopefully, he'll have 8 years to fix what the last 8 broke.

I agree 100%.. That last wizzard screwed up so much its like trying to repair a junk yard..GLAD HE IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[henw]

Like most everything else, vehicles will increasingly come from overseas. From places where the manufacturing plants will continue to be powered by coal. Where workers get a living wage and that's about it. Where governments manipulate imports and exports to their own advantage. Places where people still hunger to advance.
Like steel, textiles, and electronics, goods always make their way to where production is financially easier. It's a global economy.

Tom

[53flyingcloud]

Originally Posted by henw

Like most everything else, vehicles will increasingly come from overseas. From places where the manufacturing plants will continue to be powered by coal. Where workers get a living wage and that's about it. Where governments manipulate imports and exports to their own advantage. Places where people still hunger to advance.
Like steel, textiles, and electronics, goods always make their way to where production is financially easier. It's a global economy.

Tom

YES? And who buys this car...?? IT'S NOT AS GLOOMY AS YOU MAKE IT out to be...
You do control the bottom line...
SO, which is it?
What was your decision(where did you chose) to invest ?

[toastie]

72% would buy an American car - poll.........about time

72% consider buying American cars - poll - Apr. 28, 2009

[Airboss]

Ive always bought American and always will!!!

[Jim & Susan]

Well, I have a different slant on this, maybe. There have been reports that the average UAW worker makes $70 an hour, when you count wages, LIFETIME benefits and so on. Last time I looked at my paycheck, I wasn’t making that much (not even close, actually). If the blue collar guys are making that much, logically, their managers must be making more, probably A LOT more.

So, I gotta ask myself. How many folks do I hang around with that make $140k per year? None that I’m aware of.

Oh yes, keep in mind that YOU, the TAXPAYER, are now paying these peoples’ salaries. The UAW guys and their managers, office workers, designers, executives and so on. It’s not just those “greedy” CEO’s that are overpaid. It is possible that maybe, just perhaps, this company’s business model is just a bit out of date?

There are 5 Fords in my driveway. They’ve been there for years. Take a quick vote; does anybody think that I’m going to buy a GM or Chrysler product just so I can keep a $70 an hour guy employed, especially since I’m already paying his salary thru my taxes?

Sorry to see another American company go by the wayside. But bankruptcy reorganization makes much more sense than MY MONEY propping them up by a moronic government that will only assist them in their ultimate failure.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Jim

[overlander63]

The problems we are enduring now are the culmination of over a century of policies and decisions made by people on both sides of the political fence, and both sides of the corporate/labor table. There's blame enough to go around, including on each one of us, for our actions, or lack thereof.

[RedSHED]

Apologies to the Pontiac fans, but I'm glad Buick gets to stay. We still have my grandfather's "Professional Salesmaster" wall plaque from 1965. I don't remember whether he had a Wildcat or a Special, but it had a lot of cubes, and created a vacuum in the atmosphere when he tromped on it.

I remember the last time I rode with him:
"Really," he said looking over his shoulder at my cousin and me in the back seat, "I'm not supposed to be driving anymore; I'm on their S.H-" the rest of the sentence was drowned out by the sounds of exhaust and spraying gravel.

[Airboss]

Well the auto workers didnt make 70 per hr.. Thats counting all the benifits and all the added on extras.. You would be shocked as to what the cost is to having a employee on the payroll.. I pay part of my health insurance but the part the company pays in much much higher for their share of my insurance..

[Gene]

Actual pay for auto workers is much lower than $70/hour. That's a made up number repeated over and over, but not true. Why are we complaining about an ordinary guy being well paid? Some did make a lot per year, but that's counting overtime. No overtime now.

Gene

[henw]

For those of you proclaiming to buy American,.... stay out of Walmart!!

[Chuck]

{fires shot across the bow}

politics...politics....politics. lets not let the thread spiral down the drain, like most political discussions do...ok?

[/mod hat off]

I used to work at a Dodge dealership, many, many moons ago. I always thought it was kind of silly that all the Plymouth versions were absolutely identical to the Dodge counterparts, except for very minor things like the tail light lenses. Once, we got a delivery of new cars, and a dodge appeared that had plymouth tail lights. that was quite a rarity...a mistake by the factory. And here, we thought we were sitting on a gold mine...like a rare double-struck coin, or something. didn't last long. Boss made them swap out the lense covers from the parts department, and that was that. oh, well....

I suppose the marketing department thinks that they can sell a few more of the same thing to a different demographic if they just package it a little differently. How much does it really cost to keep 2 sets of tail lights?
correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the cars in the old days (60's..70's) actually different from one another? by more than just the tail lights? I know there were close similarities, but I thought that they were way more different than they've been making them for the last 20-30 yrs. that seems like it would cost alot more than the "2 sets of tail lights" method, for sure.

[Silvertwinkie]

The differences over the decades has been very slight. Some sheetmetal was different, but here was an interesting bit I found.

I owned a 1980 Oldsmobeater Delta 88, a B-Body platform car, which was about 3 or 4 other cars as well.

I bought a 1996 Impala SS (which also was about 3 or 4 other cars models). Looking at the basics like frame, components, etc, I found significant parts that had NOT changed at all, nor the design or locations. As a matter of fact, the holes in the frames were nearly identical...and all of 16 years apart. It did appear to me that these in fact kept costs low, but at the same time, Chuck is right, you get a car with mostly different badging, different grille, tail lights and maybe, if you're lucky slightly different sheet metal, but all in all, it's the same car! I have no idea what it costs to keep 3 or 4 models of the same car crossing several brands, but I would assume there is a fair cost to it and you're right, it makes little sense to me, but they have been doing it for decades which look were the end road has taken them with that.....

[Gene]

Years ago (and maybe now) US manufacturers rebadged cars for Canada as if Canadians were too dumb to know the difference. The Laurentian was an example mentioned earlier. But then some Toyota models are almost the same as some Lexus models and the same goes for Nissan and Infiniti, but you get to pay $10,000 more for essentially the same car. And Toyota and Chevy have the same car with different names and the Toyotas always sell better. I'll bet they cost more too.

Gene

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by Chuck

I used to work at a Dodge dealership, many, many moons ago. I always thought it was kind of silly that all the Plymouth versions were absolutely identical to the Dodge counterparts, except for very minor things like the tail light lenses. Once, we got a delivery of new cars, and a dodge appeared that had plymouth tail lights. that was quite a rarity...a mistake by the factory.

The dash in my 1972 Plymouth Satellite Sebring said "Charger." I also once had a neighbor with a GMC pickup that said GMC on one side of the cab and Chevrolet on the other.

[Journalist]

Why Pontiac and not Buick? The latest crop of Pontiacs are very well designed and are finally emerging from the dark ages of GM designs. I'm a huge fan of european cars, but I have to admit, the G8 has tempted me to buy American. It's a REALLY good looking car with a powerplant that brings Pontiac back to the musclecar days and handling that rivals some sports cars. (I know, it's really an Australian built Holden with a Pontiac grill, but it's still a GM car)
On the other hand, I haven't seen a Buick in the last 15 years that was owned by anyone who wasn't collecting a social security check. Really, GM should change Buick's slogan to "Buick: The Final Destination"
It seems GM has followed a pattern for shutting down their brands, as they did with Olds, Saturn and Pontiac all three. Just as the division starts releasing some vehicles that could possibly reignite the brand, they close up shop. The last of the Oldsmobiles were selling very well and had broken Oldsmobile out of the "grandma car" mold. Saturn's whole lineup has been revamped to include mostly rebadged Opels that bring their european styling and flair to a once boring brand known for their plastic body panels. Pontiac's Solstice, G8, and even the G6 have Pontiac back on their A-game. But alas, GM holds on to Buick's multiple models that all look just alike and even fit roughly within the same size class. I guess they are hanging onto it a while longer to appease the former Cadillac owners turned off by the newer Caddys' innovative designs. Uh oh. Cadillac has been releasing extremely innovative cars in the last couple of years... Are they next?

[Gene]

The Solstice was a good looking sports car, but all the reviews I read about it was that it was a lousy sports car—poor handling, etc.

"Really, GM should change Buick's slogan to "Buick: The Final Destination" Now that gave me a good laugh!

Gene