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Old 04-25-2009, 10:06 AM   #15
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I'm not sure I even know someone who owns a Pontiac.
You don't know me but..
I once owned the 2nd Pontiac Firebird sold in Va..While packing for my move, I came across the original owners paper/ owner's manual~!! WOW..
A/C was a BIG DEAL then...lol
For just a little over 3k$ and, changes, I bought my 1967 Firebird..
Gonna miss seeing the the nameplate on the road..
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:38 AM   #16
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Chrysler as far as I can tell, they are fully owned by Daimler-AG (even though Sterling was supposed to phased out last month-- not sure if it happened).
Sterling has only phased out the medium duty part of their product lines. One of those product was a rebadged Ram 3500. The big stuff, such as the truck formerly known as the Ford Louisville series, are still in production. For now.
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:17 PM   #17
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I see little hope for GM. They'll have to build low profit margin econo/fuel vehicles under government direction. Road worthy lawn mowers. Baby buggy segways.
Ford should be able to address this market along with the family cars/trucks people really want.
The whole group that prays for gasprices to go over $4-5/gal are the ones that scare me to death.

Tom
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:49 PM   #18
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Hey Tom, Right On!!! I wonder how much the expensive gas last year drove the economy to this point? Funny huh, record high gas prices in 2008, depressed economy in 2009.

I am driving a 2001 Grand Am GT as a daily commuter, 50 miles a day each way. 165,000 miles and counting. Had the heads off last year at 148,000 miles, as preventative, to change the head gaskets, because this type of engine has a history of blowing stock gaskets after 150K. No abnormal signs of wear noted. Engine does not burn oil, or smoke, and sounds as strong as the day I first started it.

China will never be able to match the quality of the American automobile. But with their cheap wages, and disregard for the environment, I am sure they can build a cheaper one.

Best to all,
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:01 PM   #19
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Shame to hear Pontiac is going down the tube,kept hoping they would try again with a GTO ,that looks like a GTO should,well I still have my 66,plan on being buried in it.Dave
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:54 PM   #20
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One of my biggest concerns is if Chrysler files for liquidation, what would it take for China, who is looking to enter the North American marketplace from scooping up what's left. It would be far easier to scoop up Chrysler assets in liquidation than to build a network from scratch (and cheaper)....and we all know how good the Chineese make things loaded with toxins......and they have all that money from all the junk we buy at Wally World, Target, etc).
Correct me if I am wrong but, I thought I understood that China was already making Jeep vehicles for internal consumptions?
I don't think they have started to or plan on exporting them "YET" to the USA...
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Old 04-25-2009, 06:18 PM   #21
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This is a systemic problem prevalent throughout the US corporate world.

Short term greed, ignorance and a holier than thou attitude has lead to the fall of many once great and innovative American companies.

Xerox
Westinghouse

Kodak
Polaroid
RCA
Magnavox
Fisher


The list goes on and on.


I see a frightening pattern here
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:34 PM   #22
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Underlaying Threat

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This is a systemic problem prevalent throughout the US corporate world.

Short term greed, ignorance and a holier than thou attitude has lead to the fall of many once great and innovative American companies.

Xerox
Westinghouse

Kodak
Polaroid
RCA
Magnavox
Fisher


The list goes on and on.


I see a frightening pattern here
We also have a spectre of the impending death of Capitalism, and rise of Nationaliization, and Socialism. The success of American Business is in abeyance right now. Time will tell who the survivors will be.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:31 PM   #23
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You're about 8 yrs too late..

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We also have a spectre of the impending death of Capitalism, and rise of Nationaliization, and Socialism. The success of American Business is in abeyance right now. Time will tell who the survivors will be.
China was granted favorable nation trade status in 2001 and, that was the beginning of the Age of China, 21st century.
American had it's 20th century with the Industrial Revolution Age, starting around 1900..
One only need to read the history of the Chinese people to truly understand the extent that it will go to win or promote it's own interest against the common enemies..
One in particular is how they overcome the conquest of the Mongols, without raising an fighting army. Makes one's blood chill at the thoughts of the method employed..
Yes we are on a downward spiral..Can we turn it around? Not untill you get rid of US Global debts and, are willing to buy back all of the notes held overseas.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:23 PM   #24
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The first car I ever drove was a Pontiac. I was about 13 or 14 and I had two aunts who bought a farm in rural Pa. We used to visit them and take my mother's early '50's 6 cylinder (very slow) green Pontiac. My parents let me drive it around the fields on the farm. What a thrill it was. Those were the days when Pontiacs still had the chrome stripes down the hood and trunk—after they abandoned those stripes they never seemed like Pontiacs to me.

My father's first Pontiac was a '49 fast back. I think it was blue. He bought several more, but the one I remember vividly was a mid-'50's Catalina. I think it was a 4 door hard top convertible. I think it was a three tone—tan, white, tan. The Indian head hood ornament would light up. It was a really nice looking car. Then he bought a red Buick Century hard top convertible. It was pretty snazzy too, but the Catalina was better. In 1956 he had a Lincoln Premiere—charcoal and pink. It was a tank. I remember driving it across Illinois in 1959 in driving rain when the vacuum wipers were failing. Every time we went up a little grade, the wipers would stop. We made it to a dealer when we got to Iowa and got it fixed.

My young wife didn't know what a hard top convertible was and thought it was a real convertible. I explained there was no B pillar and it was marketed as a convertible even though it wasn't. I then had to explain what a B pillar was.

In those days everyone was excited when the new models came out. The only foreign cars were VW's and a few British sports cars.

Back in the '30's, one of the GM brands was Oakland. Oakland brought out the Pontiac as a cheaper version and Pontiac soon outsold the Oakland. Oakland was discontinued and Pontiac survived.

By the time I was in my 20's I realized that European cars had more innovations. For example, disk brakes and rack and pinion steering, invented in the US, were ignored by the US companies, but adopted in Europe. The foreign companies kept improving their products, but the US companies didn't. By the '70's, US cars were full of defects. When my father died and I inherited his '85 Toronado (10 years old and 21,000 miles) I found I had a car with chronic problems. I think I replaced the master cylinder 3 times—he had already had it replaced a couple of times. It was undersized for the car and kept failing. A master cylinder was not sophisticated technology. After having had many US cars with lots of problems he had accepted that all cars were unreliable. That was not true.

If all that is left is Ford, I doubt they will have much reason to innovate or improve. There will always be people who buy American cars regardless of whether they break down, suck gas or are behind the times. That could keep one company going for a while.

US cars have been largely behind the times for decades, living on past glory. The executives at these companies have been delusional and the people who actually build the vehicles are victims of bad executive judgment.

I have some good memories of those '50's Pontiacs, but I haven't ever wanted to buy any Pontiacs since. It's not just because the stripes were gone.

Gene
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:57 PM   #25
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:37 PM   #26
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Ford bought Volvo for 5.6bil and sell to China for 2bil

Quote:
Originally Posted by 53flyingcloud View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but, I thought I understood that China was already making Jeep vehicles for internal consumptions?
I don't think they have started to or plan on exporting them "YET" to the USA...
You will see something soon as the Chinese prepare to purchase Volvo from Ford. What a mess.. Heres a clip from automotive news..

SHANGHAI (Reuters) -- Chongqing Changan Auto Co., Ford Motor's China partner, is planning acquisitions overseas as it prepares to enter Europe and North America where the industry downturn has hit hard, its chairman said on Sunday.
"The longer the crisis lasts, the bigger the chance of failure or a scale-down of some American and European automakers," Xu Liuping told reporters on the sidelines of a news conference.
"And that has provided a chance for entry by Chinese manufacturers," Xu said.
Changan is among several Chinese auto makers that have expressed interest in the Volvo car brand, which Ford is seeking to sell in an effort to raise cash.
Asked about progress on a possible Volvo deal, Xu declined to comment, citing disclosure rules mandated by the Chinese securities regulator.
"We are actively pursuing mergers and acquisitions at home and overseas but have not reached any deal so far," he said.
Changan is among the growing ranks of Chinese automakers, including Chery Automobile, that hope to emulate the global success of their Asia rivals.
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:45 PM   #27
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China will never be able to match the quality of the American automobile. But with their cheap wages, and disregard for the environment, I am sure they can build a cheaper one.
Best to all,
Hi, I will have to disagree with this statement, reluctantly, but it has been noted that the Chinese love Buicks and a certain model of Buick made in China was declared to be far superior than the same model made in the USA.
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:29 AM   #28
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We also have a spectre of the impending death of Capitalism, and rise of Nationaliization, and Socialism. The success of American Business is in abeyance right now. Time will tell who the survivors will be.
...and this for now is the crux of the matter. I am a staunch anti-socialist, which is uncommon these days as a number of folks appear to have completely lost their minds, yet at the same time, this is for lack of a better term a mild depression, not a mere depression. Many factors got us here, and it will take more than what was taken to fix it and as such, socialism is what we are going to get.....I don't disagree that the administration was wrong to force the companies it gives money to to change, but my feeling is that there is not a level playing field. The banks have not been dealt with as harshly and IMHO, are the main reason why we are in this mess currently, and although the domestic auto industry has needed a good kick in the butt for decades (which it is currently getting), I just don't see the same kool-aid being passed around the table to all folks on the government teet, what I am seeing are the banks still getting away with murder (credit card rates, not very well thawed credit, banks still giving out lavish perks and bonuses) yet here is the auto industry being told on what certain terms they have to get 25 billion, when the likes of AIG, Citibank, etc have had hundreds of BILLIONS handed to them where even now the system is finding irregular things having been done with the monies........

Again, I don't feel the auto industry didn't have this coming, but IMHO, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you take gov money, there should be the same or similar standards applied.

As for China, I will NEVER and I can say with the utmost determination, that I will never buy a Chineese made vehicle from a Chinesse owned company. I know that I have bought cars that have components made in China, but the difference is that GM's profits return to Detroit, not China (though China does make $$ on the parts it builds for GM). As has been clearly pointed out, the Chineese methods of preserving self interest are alarming and criminal in a free market society-- then again what do you expect from a communist nation? I have over the past few years begun to really seek out labels that do not say made in China. It is difficult for a 100% hit rate on this, and I do pay a buck or two more for items not made in China, but recall the old saying....think globally, act locally has several applications.
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