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Old 05-29-2009, 01:44 PM   #15
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Protecting Photos

Lee,

Glad to see that your photos were removed.
This is always a problem with the internet as the spirit of sharing information is often abused. The Bambi scammers love to pick up pics from bonafide A/S dealers & then list as their own.

My mom, an award winning & selling artist, runs into this problem quite often. She's part of an art association; all photos of their work that are posted on the website have a "copyright (artist's name) YYYY" watermark.

When I prepare a picture for publishing to the internet, (i.e. resizing, cropping) I will rename the jpeg to something that relates to either the forums or me (i.e. Area33group, whitelighinterior). This is a "trick" for search engines to draw traffic to a website - it also makes your photo unique to you. Often, the hacks will get sloppy & not bother to change the name.

If you're really concerned about not having anyone copy your image, convert to a pdf file (Photoshop elements does this) & then secure the pdf by not allowing printing, copying, etc.

Having said all of this, if someone wants to hack at any site, it can be done. These tips dissuade the lazy, easy way out scalliwags.

Carolyn
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:04 PM   #16
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Hi Carolyn, The biggest problem for me is that I worked very had to restore this trailer and I don't want someone else taking credit for it. Watermarks will be in place if I post any more pictures. Umbau (Airstreamhamberg) Haben Sie Ihre eigene Arbeit faulen Hunde. Auf Wiedersehen.
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:56 PM   #17
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Arrow Another view of giving it away

IMHO much to do about almost nothing.

If you are a professional and are concerned about intellectual properties I am sure copyright lawyers abound who will set you up legally.
If you are just a forum member and post here and there with no commercial purpose nor intent, then I think you first are subject to your images being repeated for fair use.

When they are used for commercial purposes (and I assume that is what you're talking about) then you do what you did. Ask that they be taken down. If they are not taken down reasonably fast you may (and that is a big may) have grounds for action. But how would you fix an amount of damage? And what dollar amount would you spend to try?
After all you allowed use of them free of charge to Andy the forum owner, and he absolutely has used them on his (this) COMMERCIAL site and they have surely added to his income. But how much of his income is due to each of your images? In other words as I see it you have set the value of each image very low already.
I fully understand the need for protections of intellectual properties of professional creators. But IMHO the rampage over secondary fair usage of properties originated by individuals who haphazardly or without legal limiting, allow their works placed into the public sphere is akin to the utter destructive phenomena (to human intercourse) of rampant political correctness.

I have oft wondered but do not know if the mere stating or stamping an item as copyrighted with the familiar circle c or the word spelled out etc has any real status of making that thing copy protected legally. I tend to doubt that it does.

If you wrote a sonnet and painted it on a private owned barn side on private property viewable by all passerby on the nearby Interstate but did not sign not register your words. Then I drive by remember the words and publish them as a million seller song.
Do I legally owe you?
This forum although private is viewed by thousands of passersby.

I often capture others pics here. I occasionally re-post them here too. I try to acknowledge from whom & where (URL) I found them. If someone complained I would do what I could (contact a mod) to remove them.
Anyone can use the pics I have posted here. I could not care less.
Please remember we quote the words of others here all the time. It is a built in feature of the forums. Are not words as much intellectual properties as pics?
What a SNAFU it would be if we had to have permission each time we quoted our fellow members or others.

Just my feelings, and I am no professional in the field.

Regards
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
IMHO much to do about almost nothing.

If you are a professional and are concerned about intellectual properties I am sure copyright lawyers abound who will set you up legally.
If you are just a forum member and post here and there with no commercial purpose nor intent, then I think you first are subject to your images being repeated for fair use.

When they are used for commercial purposes (and I assume that is what you're talking about) then you do what you did. Ask that they be taken down. If they are not taken down reasonably fast you may (and that is a big may) have grounds for action. But how would you fix an amount of damage? And what dollar amount would you spend to try?
After all you allowed use of them free of charge to Andy the forum owner, and he absolutely has used them on his (this) COMMERCIAL site and they have surely added to his income. But how much of his income is due to each of your images? In other words as I see it you have set the value of each image very low already.
I fully understand the need for protections of intellectual properties of professional creators. But IMHO the rampage over secondary fair usage of properties originated by individuals who haphazardly or without legal limiting, allow their works placed into the public sphere is akin to the utter destructive phenomena (to human intercourse) of rampant political correctness.

I have oft wondered but do not know if the mere stating or stamping an item as copyrighted with the familiar circle c or the word spelled out etc has any real status of making that thing copy protected legally. I tend to doubt that it does.

If you wrote a sonnet and painted it on a private owned barn side on private property viewable by all passerby on the nearby Interstate but did not sign not register your words. Then I drive by remember the words and publish them as a million seller song.
Do I legally owe you?
This forum although private is viewed by thousands of passersby.

I often capture others pics here. I occasionally re-post them here too. I try to acknowledge from whom & where (URL) I found them. If someone complained I would do what I could (contact a mod) to remove them.
Anyone can use the pics I have posted here. I could not care less.
Please remember we quote the words of others here all the time. It is a built in feature of the forums. Are not words as much intellectual properties as pics?
What a SNAFU it would be if we had to have permission each time we quoted our fellow members or others.

Just my feelings, and I am no professional in the field.

Regards
If this was just a random passer by then I wouldn't care. This is a commercial site using my work and my photo to promote there business. Bottom line if you are bring in customers off other peoples work it's wrong. I posted these pictures so people restoring their Airstreams can look at the restoration process. IMHO I find your post antagonistic. Good Day!
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:31 PM   #19
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Umbau (Airstreamhamberg) Haben Sie Ihre eigene Arbeit faulen Hunde. Auf Wiedersehen.
gute Antwort!
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:37 PM   #20
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Dank Nachbar!
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:42 PM   #21
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Anyone can take any of my pics and post them anywhere they want.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:31 PM   #22
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Arrow unfortunate

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverleeper View Post
IMHO I find your post antagonistic. Good Day!
Sorry you feel that way Lee.
But you are flat wrong. I meant no antagony toward you.
I simply saw the circumstance different than you. Nothing more.
I added my philosophy of fair usage as background to my opinion. And I made it clear that it was just that...my humble Opinion.
Great Forums are those which encourage differing opinions, but then that's a whole "nother philosophical subject.


Instead of being upset that some European site was using your pictures I think you should have been flattered.
Instead of asking them to remove them you might have asked that you be credited.
But to each their own.

dd
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:03 PM   #23
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My avatar rendering was found on another AS related site which Shari turned me onto. I wrote them a cease and desist letter and they immediately took it down but claimed they thought it was Airstream company artwork. Now just how does that make it more right to take it? I don't get it.

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Old 06-24-2009, 12:55 PM   #24
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I am not sure but I think drummer is advocating that there is no such thing as copywrite protection nor should there be and that he believes does not really exist.
If this was the case then think about all the persons who wrote their first songs, photographers who took their first pictures, writers who write books, painters who paint there pictures, etc, etc, many of these got their start though having their work placed in places for people to see, and it is through this work that they become famouse or well known. Thinking the way drummer appears to say many of them would have never had the carears they have now if it was not for copywrite protection.
The Law states that any person creating an original of something is allowed a certain amount of protection from copying, reproduction, usage, without the original owners permission.
anyone who has something and it is orginal should be and is granted this protection, even things posted on this site once the original owners decides it is not to be used it must stop being used.
why you ask? what if I or anyone decided to write a award winning poem, or wrote a song, took certain pictures, and later for some reason these was to become money makers then I should be able to have a say or financial gain same as the person who is using the work that did not make it.
Drummer how would you feel if something you wrote on this site became a million dollar song for someone else? by your way of thinking you would be out in the cold.

Just my.02 cents worth!
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
IMHO much to do about almost nothing.

If you are a professional and are concerned about intellectual properties I am sure copyright lawyers abound who will set you up legally.
He doesn't need a lawyer for photos. He doesn't even need to attach the circle c and his name. Any photo taken is the property of the person taking the photograph no matter where displayed. This is copyright law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
If you are just a forum member and post here and there with no commercial purpose nor intent, then I think you first are subject to your images being repeated for fair use.
This is not a reasonable assumption. This act is illegal and it is not reasonable to assume that someone is going to break the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
When they are used for commercial purposes (and I assume that is what you're talking about) then you do what you did. Ask that they be taken down. If they are not taken down reasonably fast you may (and that is a big may) have grounds for action. But how would you fix an amount of damage? And what dollar amount would you spend to try?
There is no may, big or small, about having grounds for actions. Clearly the owner of the site in question realized this and complied. One shouldn't have to ask someone doing something wrong to stop doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
After all you allowed use of them free of charge to Andy the forum owner, and he absolutely has used them on his (this) COMMERCIAL site and they have surely added to his income. But how much of his income is due to each of your images? In other words as I see it you have set the value of each image very low already.
Yes, he has granted airforums.com permission to use the images free of charge, but he has only granted airforums.com permission to use the images. Granting permission for use on one site does not grant world wide permission to use the images by any and all commercial ventures nor does it set the price to everyone. When you negotiate your price on a new car, that does not set the price of a comparable new car for every new car purchaser in America. Every one has to negotiate their own price. Same with any retailer, each negotiates their price with the supplier and often the price varies for one retailer to the next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
I fully understand the need for protections of intellectual properties of professional creators. But IMHO the rampage over secondary fair usage of properties originated by individuals who haphazardly or without legal limiting, allow their works placed into the public sphere is akin to the utter destructive phenomena (to human intercourse) of rampant political correctness.
You fail to understand the legal protections of copyright protections. There is NO secondary fair use of one's property. If you loan your neighbor your lawn mower, how would you feel if everyone in the neighborhood used it and said, "Oh, it's just fair use. You said Joe Blow could use it so it was OK if we used it too."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post

I have oft wondered but do not know if the mere stating or stamping an item as copyrighted with the familiar circle c or the word spelled out etc has any real status of making that thing copy protected legally. I tend to doubt that it does.
Your assumptions are incorrect. One does not even need to "stamp" an image with the circle c for it to be copyright protected. That is merely a reminder that the image is copyrighted. Ownership belongs to the originator of the image and it is copyright protected to that originator until he/she legally transfers ownership to another. Posting it on a website is allowing use, not transferring ownership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post

If you wrote a sonnet and painted it on a private owned barn side on private property viewable by all passerby on the nearby Interstate but did not sign not register your words. Then I drive by remember the words and publish them as a million seller song.
Do I legally owe you?
This forum although private is viewed by thousands of passersby.
"Airstream" is the legally copyrighted brand (remember Coca-Cola has always puts the circle c on their products) and is seen by hundreds of motorist every time we have forums rallies or the WBCCI has a caravan, but you will find yourself in deep hot water if you try to profit by using the name "Airstream". As I recall, AndyR had to change the name of this forum from airstreamforums.com to airforums.com because of legal infringement on the name.

I see the name Chevrolet on billboards all the time, but I can't claim it is my product or use the name for profit. I see Microsoft adds in magazines and on TV often, but I can't pirate their software or even use the name of one of their products as my own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post

I often capture others pics here. I occasionally re-post them here too. I try to acknowledge from whom & where (URL) I found them. If someone complained I would do what I could (contact a mod) to remove them.
Anyone can use the pics I have posted here. I could not care less.
With these last two statements, one could infer that you have given blanket permission to use your images without legal recourse or without you having rights to compensation if they are used. This does not mean that you have the right to assume you or any one else has the same permission to use mine or anyone else's photos without permission. Most people would say it is OK to use their image, but if it is to gain profit, I would certainly say you could not use any of my images to gain profit. Furthermore, I don't give permission for any of my photos posted on this site to be used by anyone other than airforums.com for the purpose I intended them to be used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post
Please remember we quote the words of others here all the time. It is a built in feature of the forums. Are not words as much intellectual properties as pics?
What a SNAFU it would be if we had to have permission each time we quoted our fellow members or others.
As I'm sure you have noticed by now, every time I have quoted you in this response, the forums software has been nice enough to automatically give you credit for your words. I am not using any of them as my own nor am I trying to infer that I wrote them myself. The website in question was and was doing so in order to increase their profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distantdrummer View Post

Just my feelings, and I am no professional in the field.

Regards
I have a basic, and it is very basic, knowledge of copyright law because I own a copyright for material posted on the web and wanted to make sure that I was protected. There are a variety of ways in which you can register copyrighted material without registering it with the U.S. government (which by the way is expensive). If you have an idea for a TV show, for example, you can submit the idea to the Screen Writer's Guild for $25. You have proof that it is your idea and when you had it. There is no research to verify that you were the first, however, so you may be faced with someone approaching you in the future with a SAGA registration for the same idea and an earlier date,. If you register your idea, trademark, etc. with the U.S. Gov. they will do a cursory research on it. That is why it is so expensive. You can also seal it in an envelope and send it to yourself via registered, return receipt requested, mail and you have verification of the time you had the idea provided you never open the envelope unless you do so in a court proceeding over ownership of the idea. But this last one is kind of iffy in some jurisdictions.
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