Packing a Gun, Mister~ - Page 2

Forrest · 01-30-2003, 10:16 AM

Colorado doesn't run drug checkpoints as far as I know. But what about other states? This is why it is important to know what the firearm laws are in the area you're traveling in. If you're legal with the firearm law then cooperation might be the best way to go, but then it's up to you to decide whether such a search is reasonable or a violation of your rights. The purpose of our constitutional protection against warrantless searches isn't to protect the guilty - it's to protect your right to privacy. What is private in your life is your decision, not the government's. The way I understand drug checkpoints is that the authorities still need your permission to search, or alternatively during their conversation with you statements are made that give them probable cause to believe drugs are present. If a search is made for drugs, but illegal weapons are found they will still be confiscated and an arrest most likely made. A court may later conclude that the search went too far and throw the case out, but who wants to go through that!

I hope that I haven't given the impression that there is a simple way to handle firearms while traveling because it can get complex. But most times people hang themselves. You'd be amazed at the number of drug couriers in airports who voluntarily talk to a police officer and then consent to a search resulting in their arrest. An officer approaches and makes an introduction such as, "Hello, I'm a police officer. Do you mind stopping for a moment and talking to me?" He is asking for you to open the door. The moment you give permission the door opens and his job, if he suspects (perhaps because you fit a profile) you have contraband, is to talk you into voluntarily opening the door wider and wider until you have consented to a search. Most people are so intimidated by authority that they are unable to say "No, I don't want to talk to you. No, I don't want to be detained. No, I don't want to be searched." We have all been brought up to believe that if you have nothing to hide then why say "no". We are all under the impression that if someone says "no" to the police then they are hiding something, and so we say "yes" thinking that will make us appear innocent. But the police officer has already made up his mind about wanting to question you and search for any of a number of reasons and knows that the guilty will most often say "yes." Be polite and patient, but it's your constitutional right to say "no."

wallybyam · 01-30-2003, 02:27 PM

Very, very good post Forrest! Some good points well made from someone who knows. You sound like you were probably a good police officer. Good for you that you are retired, but too bad for us. We need more good officers.

Thank you,

Bruce

davidz71 · 01-30-2003, 06:33 PM

TN. has reciprocity with 9 other states for carry permits. When they started the carry law 5 or 6 years ago, they increased the fine for carrying a weapon for the purpose of going armed without a permit. A minimum 4 hour classroom and 4 hr. range time plus a $115 fee allows a TN. resident to carry (doesn't have to be concealed but it is recommended) for 4 years. Renewal is $50 for 4 more years with no additional range time. It is definately cheaper than absorbing a fine.

As an FBI/NRA certified Police Firearms Instructor from a state agency I have found in most cases in TN. that as long as the weapon is not in sight, is placed in a lockbox unloaded not within easy reach (rules out glove compartment) and/or in the trunk, you are OK. Traveling through MASS. or NY City doing this will lead you straight to jail. CA. will arrest even off duty police officers from another state if they are carrying and they found out. For this reason, I have no desire to travel to or through any of these states armed or not. Doing something stupid is reason for an officer to ask questions for his own safety so be well aware.

Gordon Watt · 01-31-2003, 10:04 AM

You could be disarmed and the gun used on you.

davidz71 · 01-31-2003, 11:10 AM

I'm trained in gun retention techniques and instruct in those techniques. When going armed, as well as at other times, I am aware of my surroundings. If you think you can take it from me, bring it on!

Gordon Watt · 01-31-2003, 11:16 AM

Craig:

You are an expert at this stuff. How many people are. I would say not many.

What I stated is a fact.

Gord

davidz71 · 01-31-2003, 11:32 AM

Sure it has happened. Several law enforcement officers learned the hard way that if someone got the drop on you that they should never have given up their weapons. They were driven to a remote area and shot. What was learned from this is that you are better off taking the chance to defend yourself and being shot closer to a hospital where you may survive.

I feel that if you carry a gun for protection that you must be aware of those around you at all times (not paranoid now), take a carry permit course to be legal, shoot often to become proficient and learn what to do if someone should try to take your weapon away. Carrying a weapon for self protection is taking on a great deal of responsibility for which you should spend additional man/woman? hours of training to remain proficient. Sadly, many do not feel the need to do so. Stress causes tunnelvision and loss of minute manual dexterity thereby leaving you with only gross motor skills. Going to a range and putting youself in various scenarios goes a long way in helping when a situation does occur. When this is not possible, "What would I do if this happened? mental preparation is the next best thing. If more people would do the first one mentioned and not become vulnerable in the first place, they would be safer.

rmmm68 · 01-31-2003, 02:34 PM

Thanks for the discussion on this topic. It's always better to have a firearm when mortal threat is near. However from the discussion as well as my own research on the topic it's probably best to avoid having a hand gun, desireable as it may be, and opt for a stockless shotgun. They store easily enough, (unloaded), require no license, and present no legal problemsin any state I know of at present. I presume you can't travel across the Mexican and Canadian boarders?
Any feedback would be appreciated.

davidz71 · 01-31-2003, 04:29 PM

I had to go back to the starting thread and looked at the original requirement of "carrying in your Airstream". I have found that the number one defensive arm for an individual who is not going to spend the time to become really proficient has to be a short barrel 12 or 20 ga. shotgun. A barrel of no longer than 20" with a full stock rather than just a pistol grip which some cannot control can stop the attack immediately. If you are afraid that 00 Buckshot of 9 pellets will penetrate the sheetrock wall in a house and hit someone in the next room or exit the aluminum walls of the trailer, you could go to something smaller than #4 Buckshot which has 27 of the 24 caliber pellets and still stop them. Adding a Surefire flashlight to the forearm can temporarily blind them long enough to give you the advantage if needed.

Unloaded and stored in a travel trailer or somewhere in a MH where you can get it and load it quickly should pass most state laws other than some of the states I mentioned earlier. I based my decision on the fact that I shoot competitively and am proficient with revolvers and automatics. It is also based on the fact that the shotgun doesn't do me any good if it's inside the vehicle and I am inside a store paying for gas. The handgun gives me a greater mobility to cover all my bases but then I train with revolvers, automatics, tactical carbines and Rem. 870 shotgun. What works for me may not work for others because I have put the time in to train in those areas.

Weapons have to be declared before crossing into Mexico and Canada. It can be a hassle and is something I don't even want to think about.

Gordon Watt · 01-31-2003, 05:24 PM

Coming across the Canadian border, firearms are confiscated and you can pick them up on your way back.

Too bad one has to be armed to live in a so called free society.

I have never considered owning a firearm for self protection.

In Canada, ALL firearms must be to be registered. Why, I don't know. If you are found with an unregistered weapon, you are a criminal. This has just come into affect.

wallybyam · 01-31-2003, 05:40 PM

A shotgun my be fine until you want to carry it while walking down the street or in your car. Also, would be rather awkward to try using it effectively while lying on your back in bed.

As far as I am concerned, the best weapon for me is my Glock 21 45 cal. (fits under my pillow nicely). I have owned and used a firearm since I was 10 years old, I am now 60. I have had no formal training in marksmanship except for my military training. I hit what I aim at. I guarantee you that a person would have a difficult time taking my weapon away from me. Not that it couldn't be done, but I feel that in that kind of a situation my chances are better with the ability to protect myself than without.

I don't have to get United Nations permission to protect myself and protect myself and my family I am prepared to do.

Its a free country and if a person wants to leave himself at the mercy of some crazy(s) that is their right. But, if needed and possible, I would be willing to use my firearm to protect them also.

Bruce

Rickk48 · 01-31-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

I presume you can't travel across the Mexican and Canadian boarders?

You presume right so far as Mexico is concerned. A friend of mine who fishes off the Baja Mexico coast was caught with a small bore rifle (.22 I believe) and lost his boat, brand new Suburban and spent over 5 months in the Tijuana jail (unbelievable stories). In addition to losing his confiscated property, an additional $25,000.00 in lawyers fees and fines (bribes).

wallybyam · 01-31-2003, 06:52 PM

I believe that in Mexico you can get in as much trouble as above simply by getting caught with live amunition. Getting caught with a firearm, as you mentioned will forsure land you in Prision.

Bruce

striker · 01-31-2003, 09:11 PM

one thing to ask your self is if you take the gun and point at someone could you use to protect your self and are you ready to do so. if for hunting then i see no problem as far as the bording countries there is a permit that can be aquaried to take firearms acxross the borders but they are costly and lots of red tape to get not to mention very hard to get.