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Old 02-15-2010, 10:07 AM   #57
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State of Mind

Originally Posted by bob34787 View Post
I don't know about most states but I believe here in Florida they passed a law that allows you to use deadly force when protecting your home or anytime that you are in fear for your safety, regardless of what force you are being threatened with.
You need to articulate that you were in "fear for your life". The level of fear you experience vs. the level of fear, I may fear could be very different. Person's size, weight, level of training and experience etc, etc...

However, that "fear" is the basis of a person's state of mind to use deadly force. All the other factors go into the equation after the fact. Your are trying to convince a reasonable person of your "state of mind" at the time of the incident. If you have time/interest do some reading on the case law in Massachusetts.

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Old 02-15-2010, 10:16 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by kmpro View Post
Jim nailed it. A charging Grizzly will probably not be deterred by pepper spray. I have that stuff too. Like he said, it's much more fun to go to the range and pop a few caps. Have fun on your run makes sense to me. BTW, in addition to handguns on our person, my wife and I have a 12 gauge pump loaded with 00 Buck to discourage those who would try to break in or do bodily harm to either of us. The sound of chambering a round in the 12 gauge will strike fear in the hearts of all but the most determined bad guys. Those bad boys understand brute force. That is what the shotgun does best.

The bear part is not really true. There are videos out there of charging bears turning tail and running when hit with a large can of bear pepper spray. Saw one in a hunter safety class. The guy hit the bear at 4 feet when it was coming in behind him around a tree.

My cousin lives in Sitka Ak. and most of the people up there carry the stuff. The gun is a last resort. Because to hit a charging bear is pretty hard and to drop it even harder with a hand gun or shotgun. The pepper spray sends them running fast.. And will drop a human pretty quick and send them running into stuff as they won't be able to see.

The old adage up there in Alaska when people show up with pistols is: " you better file the site of the end of that barrel, Because when you done shooting the bear it won't hurt so much when it shove it up your ass.

Be careful out there.


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Old 02-15-2010, 10:59 AM   #59
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:58 AM   #60
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Poetic Justice

That was a funny one Purman!

Just the same, i'll stick to my .375 with teh 300gr noslers when I go up there.

I don't know if this is true (I kind of doubt it, but man it'd be great if it were), but there was a purported Craig's List ad going around that was supposedly posted by a guy who was the victim of an attempted mugging. The mugger had a knife and the "victim' had a .45 1911. Anyway, the "victim" wound up taking the bad guy's wallet, cell phone, and shoes (so he couldn't run away too quickly for his buddies) and told the mugger to run away. The "victim" then gave the bad guy's cash to the first homeless guy he came across, used his cell phone to call the guy's mother (her number was in the address book) and tell her what her son had done, then he called the FBI and made a bunch of threats using the guy's name that he got off his driver's license; then he found a "Mack Daddy" Cadillac parked along the street and scratched it all up and busted the windshield out, then tossed the wallet with driver's license in on the seat. The ad closed with something like "I could have shot you, and that may have been easier on you, but I think this is a more appropriate means to teach you the error of your ways and I hope you turn your life around."

Too funny
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:16 PM   #61
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Guns and Kids

As one who has children and guns the thought of one of my kids getting hurt due to a firearm would wake me up in a cold sweat. One day, years ago, the kids came home and said one of the local idiots was waving a pistol around. They immediately left the neighbors house. We all took hunters safety courses. We all talked about the dangers on a regular basis. We all handled guns. Guns under lock and key have merits. But, one must be ready.
You hear about kids getting killed in drive-by shootings. Sad, but a fact of life.
We raised our kids to not be victims, stay out of trouble and to realize what the choices are.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:35 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Jammer View Post

The legal climate in Florida and surrounding states extremely pro-carry although in Georgia the "public place" limitation on permit holders could be construed to apply in campgrounds or parks by an overzealous prosecuting attorney. I understand that there have been ongoing legislative efforts to fix this but no results yet.
In Georgia, the law says you can carry a concealed weapon (if licensed) in public, non-government, places. This includes bars/nightclubs, etc. Ain't we smart here? It also includes state parks and campgrounds. For years you could have a gun in your motor vehicle within arms reach. I'm sure the law enforcement community were happy when that one passed.

Originally Posted by Steamy1 View Post
The firearm debate will continue, with legitmate and valid arguments on all sides. However, I do believe that it is prudent to have something, and to me, it means "bear pepper spray".

At least if you make a mistake, someone does not die, but you still have some protection.
Originally Posted by richie rich View Post
I have a concealed weapons permit,but mace might keep you out of court.
Originally Posted by purman View Post

I carry the bear Pepper spray. if the kids do get a hold of it it won't kill them.. I might, but it won't..

This stuff will put down just about anyone man or beast and you don't have to be as particular with your air. (you can move it as you are dispensing it)

you would be surprised how easy it is to miss someone at 10-15 feet when in a panic situation with a gun. Time spent at the range can help here.

I always believe that when someone is taking your rights away then they no longer have any what so ever.
Originally Posted by cclarkego View Post
I now believe in prayer, and bear spray, plus a couple of big black labs

I, too, am aware of the recommendation for using wasp/bee insecticide. With pepper spray and mace, the target has to be within 10 feet or so for it to reach. Wasp spray is accurate to 30 feet. Wasp spray leaves the culprit in more agony than pepper spray and they have to go to the emergency room for treatment and relief. Plus, pepper spray does not blind the victim, just a lot of pain, wasp spray makes it impossible to see, or so I'm told. Pepper spray is in a small quantity where as wasp spray comes in much larger cans giving you more ammo to "shoot with". It is easier to find a large can of wasp spray by your bed than to find a small can of pepper spray in a drawer.

Guess you can imagine which I will use on an intruder.

BTW, it is best to have 911 on the phone where they can hear/record the incident before you shoot that intruder. They make pretty good witnesses in most jurisdictions.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:23 PM   #63
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Funny no one has mentioned the District Attorney in the area the shooting takes place.

He or she will determine what state of fear you were in when you pulled the trigger and what charges should be brought against YOU. If they think they have a case it is you who will spend your life savings and still have a good chance of going to jail.

Once the deed is done rightly or wrongly the repercussions of your actions is no longer in your hands.

Think first shot last...
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:37 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by bob34787 View Post
I don't know about most states but I believe here in Florida they passed a law that allows you to use deadly force when protecting your home or anytime that you are in fear for your safety, regardless of what force you are being threatened with.

I believe that right of self defense is called "castle doctrine" and is protected in Florida by statute, as it is in some other, but not all, states. You can probably thank the NRA for standing up for you on that one. Those statutes are designed to essentially guarantee that a citizen can defend himself without getting dragged into the court system for doing so.

There is a good guide to the 50 states gun laws available at I get one every couple of years. Good info on transporting firearms and interesting reading to see how the states regulate and how the laws are so different from state to state, and, still changing. Compare my super-restrictive home state of New Jersey to practically unrestricted Vermont to see what I mean.

IMHO, if you are going to carry in any manner, get educated and trained. My wife and I are currently in the process of going through a series of firearm training classes.

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Old 02-15-2010, 08:01 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by garry View Post
Funny no one has mentioned the District Attorney in the area the shooting takes place.

He or she will determine what state of fear you were in when you pulled the trigger and what charges should be brought against YOU. If they think they have a case it is you who will spend your life savings and still have a good chance of going to jail.

Once the deed is done rightly or wrongly the repercussions of your actions is no longer in your hands.
In the gravest extreme it really doesn't matter much what the DA might think because the important thing is to survive the encounter. In lesser circumstances, keep it in the holster.

An alternative view is that for those who are confident of their salvation it doesn't really matter whether they survive the encounter or not. My view is that my work on earth isn't finished yet.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:41 AM   #66
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I think it is a shame we have people who have to ask for a handout at street corners. There are many avenues to give relief to those honest sincere peeps who are down on their luck. Unfortunately, there some who would rather mooch money at the corner instead of work at a job. I talked to a guy in Denver that does just that for a living. He said he would average $ 200 to $400 a day begging. Pays no taxes. No sympathy for these peeps. The bad guys addressed here are those who steal and do bodily harm to take from others. They look for the easy mark. Older peeps in Airstreams look like easy marks to them. Be Forewarned.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:34 AM   #67
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I don't travel to states, armed, that will not allow me to defend myself to the fullest extent possible. I just go there unarmed and pray for the best outcome and be careful.

In the SE USA (Save for SC) I am always armed and usually always carrying either openly (everywhere except FL) or concealed.

Take a class, read the law, get the proper leagal permits, train and think before you carry.

The most lax gun laws...VERMONT of all places. They essentially have no gun laws other than being "legally able to own a firearm". My state, GA, is a great gun state as well. The worst states - that's easy - they're mostly BLUE. Go figure.

And remember "...the police...minutes away when seconds count."
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:10 PM   #68
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Well, I guess it is time to put in my 2 cents...
I certainly wouldn't back down from shooting anyone that truly caused me to fear for my life. I do keep bear spray around, and I have shot enough guns to be accused of being married to someone on the SWAT team, though that item is not true. So far my only real instance of using a gun at all was when I heard loud footsteps approaching my 4WD in a deserted canyon of Death Valley. I waited for a count of three, pulled up gun and flashlite at the same moment, only to be pointing it at a....mule. He lived.... The only other instance where my life was saved by LACK of a gun, in the Sahara. My guide wanted more money, we had a bit of a standoff in a dry creekbed. I drank a warm Heineken and had a cigarette or two much to the dismay of most of my other Tuareg companions. The time spent there caused me to find out much later in Agadez, a tourist also traveling with a native guide was shot to death with a machine gun by a man looking to make a financial (excuse the pun) killing on the same road we would have been traveling on. Because of all that, I stick with the bear spray....


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