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Old 02-14-2010, 02:59 PM   #43
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I now believe in prayer, and bear spray, plus a couple of big black labs

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Old 02-14-2010, 05:39 PM   #44
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practical aspects

I'm chime in here and make two points: (1) As odd as it may sound, if you decide to carry, be sure to use common factory ammunition, no reloads! While it might sound funny, you can be guaranteed to be sued (regardless of what happened) and be put on the defensive if you used reloads. The argument made against you is that you used a "heavy" load or somehow wanted to torture the criminal. So use factory ammo (expanding factory ammo is OK) and save the box your rounds came in. I can promise you that you'll wish you saved that box if you end up shooting someone. (2) As implied, almost regardless of any other factor, you can expect to be sued if you shoot someone. This means you make sure you only fire to save your life or someone else's life. Pulling that trigger will cost you $20,000 minimum. If it saves your life or someone else's, then you'll never feel bad. But if you pull the trigger to stop someone from stealing your generator, you'll regret that act.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:49 PM   #45
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The Taurus Judge uses 410 shells
This is an interesting pistol.

It can use .410 shotshells AND .45 Colt ammo.

A friend owns one and keeps it in his place of business.

He alternates the chambers with .410 buckshot then .45 bullets.

His reasoning is if the buckshot doesn't stop the perpetrator, the .45 will.
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:57 PM   #46
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If you are in a campground and fire a gun, remember that if you miss your target, RV's have thin walls and bullets can easily go through them. They also have some hard metal parts like appliances and tongues that can deflect bullets or send shrapnel through an RV. In many campgrounds, RV's are close and bullets travel far.

Unless you are very experienced, you may be very nervous and accuracy will suffer. The best trained people frequently have serious emotional reactions to killing or wounding someone. It is not for frivolous reasons that cops have to take some time off after shooting someone.

On another thread there was a discussion about whether in defending an RV you would have the same protections as defending your house. I looked into it briefly for Colorado and the answer seemed to be no. Make My Day laws are not a good defense if you shoot someone in a lot of instances, for ex., someone has to enter the premises. An RV is a vehicle, not a residence. Those are some of the questions and they may be different elsewhere.

Avoiding a bad situation is usually the best approach. Being aware of your surroundings as previously posted is a good idea. Having grown up in a big city, I do see things my wife, who grew up in a relatively small city, misses completely. In a big city, I automatically look between buildings, into alleys, behind cars and size up people. It becomes 2nd nature. For what it's worth, only one time has anyone tried to attack me. He was about 6" taller and tried to slug me and I grabbed his coat and used the force of his arm movement to knock him off balance and he fell down a flight of stairs, broke his leg and was knocked out. I was shocked—what I did was instinctive because I had no training to do that, but it proved to me that there's a lot to martial arts that teach you to use the energy of your opponent against them. If he had a gun I would have said "what do you want sir?"

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Old 02-14-2010, 07:05 PM   #47
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Being aware of your surroundings is helpful, but surprises do happen, then what.

Having a big dog or two also is a plan, but maybe you're allergic, or have a cat that can be thrown at the intruder, but kitty will be ticked at you for doing it...

Lights the brighter the better, loud horn, like a boat air horn powered by freon is great to have, talk about an attention getter, scares bears, dogs, people and assorted critters in a 50 foot radius.

May be confused with a football game score though.

An old friend always carried Ole Bess with double ought and felt very comfortable if one in the air didn't scare them away he felt they were deaf, crazy or plain stupid and they needed to pray, not him.

It's a toss up, do what makes you feel comfortable, or stay home in the closet, and that's just no fun.
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:47 PM   #48
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Jim nailed it. A charging Grizzly will probably not be deterred by pepper spray. I have that stuff too. Like he said, it's much more fun to go to the range and pop a few caps. Have fun on your run makes sense to me. BTW, in addition to handguns on our person, my wife and I have a 12 gauge pump loaded with 00 Buck to discourage those who would try to break in or do bodily harm to either of us. The sound of chambering a round in the 12 gauge will strike fear in the hearts of all but the most determined bad guys. Those bad boys understand brute force. That is what the shotgun does best.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:21 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mistermcfrug View Post
I'm chime in here and make two points: (1) As odd as it may sound, if you decide to carry, be sure to use common factory ammunition, no reloads! While it might sound funny, you can be guaranteed to be sued (regardless of what happened) and be put on the defensive if you used reloads. The argument made against you is that you used a "heavy" load or somehow wanted to torture the criminal. So use factory ammo (expanding factory ammo is OK) and save the box your rounds came in. I can promise you that you'll wish you saved that box if you end up shooting someone. (2) As implied, almost regardless of any other factor, you can expect to be sued if you shoot someone. This means you make sure you only fire to save your life or someone else's life. Pulling that trigger will cost you $20,000 minimum. If it saves your life or someone else's, then you'll never feel bad. But if you pull the trigger to stop someone from stealing your generator, you'll regret that act.
Is this a been there done that??? or I knew someone???????????
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:41 AM   #50
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They emphasize in the concealed handgun course that deadly force is a last resort. Someone stealing my generator doesn't warrant deadly force. IMHO.
If however, they are breaking in to my coach, they deserve what happens. Namely, fatal gunshot wounds. They won't be testifying in court or bringing suits, because dead people just don't do that.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:04 AM   #51
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If however, they are breaking in to my coach, they deserve what happens. Namely, fatal gunshot wounds. They won't be testifying in court or bringing suits, because dead people just don't do that.
Mike[/QUOTE]
And while I agree, the bad news is that the family will file suit. Just too bad the bad guys can't just get what they deserve.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:13 AM   #52
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You are so correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpro View Post
Jim nailed it. A charging Grizzly will probably not be deterred by pepper spray. I have that stuff too. Like he said, it's much more fun to go to the range and pop a few caps. Have fun on your run makes sense to me. BTW, in addition to handguns on our person, my wife and I have a 12 gauge pump loaded with 00 Buck to discourage those who would try to break in or do bodily harm to either of us. The sound of chambering a round in the 12 gauge will strike fear in the hearts of all but the most determined bad guys. Those bad boys understand brute force. That is what the shotgun does best.
Mike
Racking the slide is a universal sound, especially at 0200 hrs!
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:20 AM   #53
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how much confidence do you have?

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Is this a been there done that??? or I knew someone???????????
See a discussion thread on DefensiveCarry.com--http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/concealed-carry-issues-discussions/63436-dont-use-reloaded-ammo-defense.html

There are many other sources for this type of advice. I don't have case data at my fingertips.

It seems to me that if you have full confidence in our legal system and would never expect to be taken advantage of, you should ignore the talk about the importance of using factory ammo. On the other hand, if you have assets that you think the relatives of the perp would love to have, along with their shyster lawyer, just maybe you don't want to be in a huge argument about the ballistic capabilities of ammo that you manufactured that cannot be confirmed by anyone but YOU (and the civil jury would be happy to disbelieve you because they want to give a lot of your money to the plaintiff). Oh, and my guess is that your homeowners liability insurance would never cover a loss like this. The court would be saying that you intentionally used an inappropriate load--no insurance covers intentional acts. So you're naked on this one, with a risk of hundreds of thousands of dollars out of your own pocket, because you tried to save $25 on ammo

I just assume that Airstream owners, by and large, have something to lose and would want to hold down on the opportunity of relatives of perps to successfully file against them. Remember, when they sue you, YOU will end up hiring expensive experts at hundreds of dollars per hour to speculate and comment upon the reasonable ballistic capabilities of your ammo and defend against the comments from their experts who said you went overboard. Factory ammo eliminates this cost. I've read about this subject several times in the past. It's easy for me conclude (without 15 cases to point to) that use of reloads would be something anyone would deeply regret AFTER they shot someone. Before you shoot someone, you can always talk about how fair the legal system is and how no-o-one would ever screw you.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:24 AM   #54
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It Depends

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermcfrug View Post
I'm chime in here and make two points: (1) As odd as it may sound, if you decide to carry, be sure to use common factory ammunition, no reloads! While it might sound funny, you can be guaranteed to be sued (regardless of what happened) and be put on the defensive if you used reloads. The argument made against you is that you used a "heavy" load or somehow wanted to torture the criminal. So use factory ammo (expanding factory ammo is OK) and save the box your rounds came in. I can promise you that you'll wish you saved that box if you end up shooting someone. (2) As implied, almost regardless of any other factor, you can expect to be sued if you shoot someone. This means you make sure you only fire to save your life or someone else's life. Pulling that trigger will cost you $20,000 minimum. If it saves your life or someone else's, then you'll never feel bad. But if you pull the trigger to stop someone from stealing your generator, you'll regret that act.
Think next stupid new law; If all I can get are reloads, I shoot reloads. Get ready, carbide reloading dies with all calibers in this family.
Think Maine winter, if my generator means life or death to my family, guess again.
I recently saw an Italian movie by Vittorio De Sica, "The Bicycle Thief", a guy gets a job in post war Italy if he has a bicycle, well the bike gets stolen, what would you do? Hungry kids? On Netflix.
Cops lie, politicians lie, lawyers lie, "Can't We all Just Get Along?", yes Rodney King, we can all get along. The check is in the mail.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:04 AM   #55
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I don't know about most states but I believe here in Florida they passed a law that allows you to use deadly force when protecting your home or anytime that you are in fear for your safety, regardless of what force you are being threatened with.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:59 AM   #56
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The OP mentioned people begging at rest stops. Yesterday I read an article about how the Great Recession has hit the poorest people hardest—unemployment rates from about 20-30%. My guess is those are most likely the people begging. Starts to sound like the many homeless and destitute people during the Great Depression when the unemployment rate was 25%.

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