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Old 02-05-2010, 07:32 PM   #29
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Prayer, yes; there's a whole theology of nonviolence that's worth exploring too.

More practically, it also helps considerably to pay attention to your surroundings and understand how violence develops. I find Marc MacYoung's web site to be highly entertaining and thought provoking. I also believe it is reasonably factual, for the most part.

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Old 02-07-2010, 05:55 AM   #30
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"jdthor do you have any other advice"...........

"Situational Awareness", an overused term in policing, actually has application for those of us trying to avoid violent confrontations. I preach this to my little citizen groups when I am asked to discuss personal safety. For example, I usually take a quick walk around the campground even before we start to settle in, this to determine any potential for problems later on. It doesn't bother me a bit to get back in the TV and move on if I am uncomfortable with what I find, or even later if nasty neighbors show up. And I do this despite the fact that I am legally armed to the teeth.

On the other hand, even with regular preparation and attentiveness, any of us may someday be faced with a dangerous or deadly encounter with another. That's where it is difficult to give advice, for now we would be talking about deadly force issues, and that is the part that takes serious and determined analysis. And even then the action you take could be unpredictable, at least it was in the few times I have had to go that far.

I realize this answer has wandered a bit, but in summary I would emphasize "avoidance" and "awareness". There is nothing wrong with moving on just because you "had a bad feeling" about where you are at the moment.

If you do decide to carry a lethal weapon you have an obligation to be proficient, to practice, to know what it will do, to know what your limits are, to understand the implications of taking the life of another.

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Old 02-11-2010, 10:09 PM   #31
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My wife and I took the CHL course in Texas and after reading the pros and cons I am sure that we did the right thjing by taking the CHL course. And yes, we are packing. I firmly believe that you need the difference if things get out of control. Deadly force is a last resort. God forbid it should ever come to that. Know this. Our mindset and training is that if it comes down to my life or my wife's or the bad guy. I will take out the bad guy every time. My wife(a sweet loving, considerate woman) came to the same conclusion. Having an expensive trailer or motorhome sometime makes you an easy mark in the eyes of the predator. Likewise our age. Be forewarned and forearmed.
A Man has got know his limitations-Dirty Harry
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:25 AM   #32
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I have a concealed weapons permit,but mace might keep you out of court.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:17 AM   #33
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I'd like to share my newly gained perspective on this subject...... one of those "damn I wish I'd figured this out sooner" stories. And, one not as disjoint from the freedom of Airstreaming as I used to think.

Yup, part of the peace and love generation, my wife and I grew up, and raised our kids without guns for all the "proper" reasons. I know now we were uneducated - that we'd let our minds be shaped by conventional "wisdom" and the barrage of Second Amendment mis-information peddled on TV. Well, I can now tell you: we were fools. We now are both well trained in hand gun use. It has been an amazingly positive experience - one I regret missing out on and not appreciating earlier in life..

This change started about a year ago when I began looking into getting a gun to bring up to our remote mountain property for protection. It has been a true eye-opener that has ended that nagging "victim" mentality but most importantly, one that brought us to actually understand the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. and the brilliance of its founders.

So here are my words of wisdom to take as you like:

1 - Regardless of whether or not you want to carry the gun or keep it in your RV, every American should be trained to use, and own a firearm. Taking a class is first step. It is fun and you'll likely be surprised at the really great people you'll meet. We attended a full day intorduction at Sig Sauer Academy (a great excuse to take out the Safari ), but the NRA Local Classes. are a great route. Many of these schools also offer basic self protection and "don't be a victim" classes. Train your spouse and you children!

2 - Toss out all you've heard from the "talking heads" and re-learn the Second Amendment, why the Founding Fathers knew it was essential to a truly free nation, and why it is the target of those who want to restrict your freedom. I honestly never understood why this was a fundamental right. What I learned turned upside down everything I'd believed about guns and gun control, and the groups claiming to "making us safer".

3 - Decide then if you want to carry the gun in your RV. The article mentioned above is a good one. Ammunition choice is important for self protection and the safety of others.

From here on, we don't intend to go anywhere in the Airstream without the 9mm pistol and the shotgun. Had I said that a year ago, I'd have called myself a crazy gun nut. Now I say it with a confident smile knowing what I should have known a long long time ago.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:40 AM   #34
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I took a basic handgun class for women this week. I felt at ease in the women-only class. I found the target practice to be enjoyable. I will be signing up for further training and get a CCW permit. I highly recommend to women that want to learn to take hands-on classes rather than learning from their partners.
Janet & Leon
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:59 AM   #35
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If not a gun, should I carry a 9 iron or a wedge? I have never been able to hit anything with either so perhaps it doesn't matter. At 66 years of age, the hands are unlikely to get any steadier so I'm afraid I would endanger others with a gun. jc
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:28 PM   #36
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Enjoyed the humor, rustyrivet. Insofar as age is concerned, I was surprised to learn that at the age of 58, I was the second YOUNGEST (out of 20) students in my first concealed handgun class!
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:35 PM   #37
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:38 PM   #38
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Canadian laws pretty much exclude bringing any firearm into Canada unless you can demonstrate you will be legally hunting, in which case hunting rifles and/or shotguns would be permitted across the border.

I have never heard of anyone legally bringing a handgun or assault rifle into Canada for "protection", but I have heard of people getting caught trying to smuggle them across. Not a good scene to be a part of. It will ruin your trip, be very expensive and may severely restrict your travel options in the future.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:00 PM   #39
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To carry or not, that being the question, I really haven't even decided for myself. ( and I'm a certified gun enthusiast)
Pro: I probably will never need one, but I do plan to boondock some, and you never know.... certainly don't want to be stuck with a knife at a gunfight.

Con: Lots of ways to get in trouble with restrictive laws, ie. in state and national parks, transiting NYC, New Jersey, Mass., or D.C., or international borders. Something to worry about if burglarized.

If you do , definitely make sure you are THOROUGHLY proficient in the handling and use of your chosen arm, and get a concealed carry permit for your locality. These recoprocate across many jurisdictions, and even if not can serve to reassure a law officer of your law-abiding status. Research the local laws wherever you plan to go. Drive carefully and stay off the phone while doing so, the road is by far your greatest threat.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:25 PM   #40
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I would, but I have two small kids, so I don't. There is no point carrying one that isn't loaded and I won't have a loaded gun around my kids. Even though they know better than to touch it..

I carry the bear Pepper spray. if the kids do get a hold of it it won't kill them.. I might, but it won't..

This stuff will put down just about anyone man or beast and you don't have to be as particular with your air. (you can move it as you are dispensing it)

you would be surprised how easy it is to miss someone at 10-15 feet when in a panic situation with a gun. Time spent at the range can help here.

The Taurus Judge uses 410 shells which have a good pattern and will put someone down too, sometimes without killing them. But I was taught if you gonna shot someone then you better shot to kill.. I know it sounds bad, but thats the facts of life.

I always believe that when someone is taking your rights away then they no longer have any what so ever.

May you have at least one sunny day, and a soft chair to sit in..

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Old 02-13-2010, 08:37 AM   #41
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rbr: permit holders can carry legally now in national parks (as of last year), and it has been legal for some time now in some state parks.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:12 AM   #42
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Ganaraska, what exactly is a "gun nut?" I find this term to be offensive. Does it mean that if I've shot targets and hunted for the past 35 years and recognized a gun for what it is, essentially a chordless drill (you point it at something and it makes a more and no less) that I am somehow mentally imbalanced?

If so, I find that offensive.

Especially from a resident of Canada, a country in which you are required by law to take a firearm with you to certain areas (look it up...if you want to fly your Cessna over certain remote areas, you are required to bring a firearm.) I would bet $20 that there's a higher percentage of Canadians that own guns than Americans. Just like airplanes....a much higher percentage of Canadians have aircraft than Americans. Both are needed to deal with the remote areas. And honestly, I envy you for that. I've only been to Vancouver, so a city doesn't really count. But from what I've read and seen, the remote areas of Canada are really beautiful. I hope to visit there sometime.

But back to guns, in point of fact, there is essentially no handgun that is really effective against something like a Grizzly bear. Even a .500 S&W magnum would be marginal. It extends from that that virtually no handgun is as effective as a shotgun or a rifle. For home defense, for example, it's hard to beat a 12 gauge shotgun.

But, a handgun is better than a sharp stick, and they are hidable. So that's where the questions come in.

I started shooting when I was four years old. I started with black powder "muzzle loaders", of the type used in the mid 1700's. I still find them fun. I enjoy the modern types as well. I find all of them fun. I fail to see the "mystique" that some apply toward them. They are a simple tool. Nothing more, nothing less. Some guys like golf; I like rifles. Both are simply tools. Both can be lethal if misused. Responsibility is the key.

If you are scared of firearms in any way, then stay away from them altogether. Better to use a ball bat than to trip up with a firearm and do something really bad. I read that wasp&hornet spray actually works much better than pepper spray to incapacitate a human. A good zap of Raid or Black Flag to the eyes and the person is rendered blind, nearly immediately, for several hours.

But, firearms can be great fun. I recently bought a small rifle in .17 Hornady magnum caliber. It is incredibly fun to shoot. Extremely accurate, but very sensitive to wind, so it's just like shooting a big magnum at 500 yards where you have to allow for wind drift and such. So far, I've shot a four shot group that measures just 0.3" center to center at 70 yards. I can't see any better than that. Anyway, my point here is that they can be a ton of fun and not just all doom and gloom. Yes, they can save your hide when needed, but that's not the only thing they're good for.

As for the sparys...personally, I think grizzly bears laugh at pepper spray. Probably about like putting cayenne pepper on your chicken to make it taste better. All that stuff will do is tick one off. I'll stick with a .375 H&H bolt action or a good .45-70 lever action. You can't hide one in your shorts, but it will stop a bear, or anything smaller.

At any rate, I don't want to come across as abusive. I just take offense at people calling others "gun nuts" because they enjoy shooting guns. I, like most of the Swiss, call a golf course a great waste of a shooting range

Best of luck whichever way you go, and I hope to see you on the road.

take care,

- Jim
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