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Old 10-20-2009, 12:06 PM   #15
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When the 'crowd' cannot determine what is good from what is not good, what is reality from what is not; when rules are vague or left to interpretation; when reason and integrity suffer; when standards are not examined and upheld, the results we see should be expected. The examples are present even in this thread with just a few posts so far.

The responses also indicate an agreement with the OP that a problem is noted. The issue is how to deal with it, both at forum level and at the personal level. Again, this thread provides several examples of the different ways of dealing with it: avoidance, tolerance, denial, gaming, ...

I don't see many considering the implications seriously, some of which have been noted. I think that is troublesome and worrisome.

re: "Where some see negativity, I see something else." - moral relativism, perhaps? (also the "Then... there is the whole Negative/Positive terminology. I'll offer this analogy...").

re: "Talk radio has taught us to pick sides, argue points and never, never give into the other side." - let's not get into generalizations, what say? (it's another type of logical fallacy). Choosing a vague villain does not lead towards anything fruitful.

re: "got those rivets by posting TONS of positive, informative assistance to ALL of us!" - a generalization that really doesn't fit with what I see. It tends towards confusing to OP that noted a correlation with a backwards causation (again, a known logical fallacy). it also goes towards the rationalization by association.

Anyone who has a good grasp on their own feelings and ideas and can see with an open mind can tell when anger and bile is present. It takes a bit of work but you can also determine when reason and rationality are left behind or when opinion falls to judgment.

If we want civility in our forums or in our society at large, it will take each and every one of us to come to grips with who we are, an ability to distinguish fact from opinion, an appropriate tolerance for new or different ideas, and an ability to accept things we may not like.
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Old 10-20-2009, 01:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
If you have time for a read on the subject of online communities and how they are typically controlled by a small percentage of members read this white paper:

The full PDF is found here (it's an excellent read)
Andy,

Thanks for the link--very insightful.

I downloaded it to read at length, but at first glance it tends to confirm some of my thoughts, like "80% of the user-generated content on the Web, is created by less than 10% of web users. . ."

Best regards,
Nuvi
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bryanl View Post
Anyone...with an open mind can tell when anger and bile is present.
Such as in your post?
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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To be or not to be...that is the question

I am a new member of WBCCI...have been on this forum and lurking for some time longer...I have participated in two wbcci chapter rallies and have been nothing but comfortable and welcomed....great people and great fun..... and I am not naturally a joiner or a fun person...ask anyone in my former life as a corporate executive..... but i am learning

bring or leave your baggage at the door.....the face you bring is what people see....If you are not happy until everyone else is NOT HAPPY then that is what you will get......

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take all you want....eat all you take
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Thanks for the link--very insightful.
Here are some of my favorite tid bits:
Quote:
This means the old idea of "influencers" is confirmed and explained. The most frequent contributors are the influencers, and they have a strong influence on purchase decisions because they write most of the online recommendations and reviews.
Quote:
Web discussion is theatre
These findings mean online community matters enormously to companies, but not in the way that most of them expect. Online discussion is a poor way to communicate with the average customer, because average customers don't participate. But it is a great way to communicate to them, because average customers watch and listen.

Most content and discussion sites should be viewed as performances, in which the site's organizers interact with a relatively small number of users in order to educate, persuade, or entertain everyone else. This means it is critical that companies understand who the MFCs are, and how to take care of them, because they are the companies' fellow actors in the online performance.
Quote:
Web communities: 10% contributors, 70% voyeurs
The common perception of web communities is that they allow groups of people to share ideas and information, and that they allow companies to communicate directly with their customers. This is factually true, but also misleading. The vast majority of online conversation is driven by a small group of web users -- less than ten percent of them. The rest of the web community sits back and watches the interactions as a mostly-passive audience that only occasionally injects a few comments.

Community experts have been aware of this phenomenon for years, calling it"participation inequality." Jakob Nielsen wrote an influential article on the subject in 2006, describing the "90-9-1 rule" ("90-9-1" Rule for Participation Inequality: Lurkers vs. Contributors in Internet Communities (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)). It states:
  • "90% of users are lurkers (i.e., read or observe, but don't contribute).
  • "9% of users contribute from time to time, but other priorities dominate their time.
  • "1% of users participate a lot and account for most contributions: it can seem as if they don't have lives because they often post just minutes after whatever event they're commenting on occurs."
The 90-9-1 phenomenon means that an online community generally doesn't represent the opinions and interests of the average customer; instead, it tends to reflect the views of extreme enthusiasts.
If I ran a company (or club) it would be in my best interest to listen to the most vocally outspoken people and take care of their needs. Let's just say there are a few people who continue to harp on quality control issues. Wouldn't it be smart to take some time, listen to them, try and address the issues (especially on their units) in order to win them over? Same thing goes for some of the people who are passionate about changing a club. If the club listened to them and tried to find solutions to their issues they would not be so outspoken about their desire to change. It's not fair to point the blame on people who are complaining about something unless you have tried everything possible to resolve the situation.
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:10 PM   #20
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If I ran a company (or club) it would be in my best interest to listen to the most vocally outspoken people and take care of their needs. Let's just say there are a few people who continue to harp on quality control issues. Wouldn't it be smart to take some time, listen to them, try and address the issues (especially on their units) in order to win them over? Same thing goes for some of the people who are passionate about changing a club. If the club listened to them and tried to find solutions to their issues they would not be so outspoken about their desire to change. It's not fair to point the blame on people who are complaining about something unless you have tried everything possible to resolve the situation.
Right! unless you don't see listening to the outspoken folks as worth your effort... This is why so many folks in a certain club feel alienated by it's leadership and it's "official" forum.
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:34 PM   #21
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Why is this? This what I copied and pasted.

Well some people aren't happy unless they are miserable.

Another thing to consider is research has shown people are more bold, vent, attack and complain more on the Internet because they would not do it face to face. They feel more protected writing it on their computer. It is easier to go after a point, position or person on the Internet. I am sure some would like to do it face to face but for various reasons don't.

I personally would like to see a section for misery put iincorporated that does not post on the portal. I guess a place where you can keep your dirty laundry in the back yard instead in the front yard. I would not stop members from accessing that area but who wants to click on the portal and the first thing you see is an attack.

The airstream forums I use as a positive, informational fun site. It is an escape from the everyday conflicts in my life. Camping in my airstream is addicting because it allows me to have adventure and escape the stresses of life. Forum Conflicts is like having to take some bad medicine. I wish people would just give it a rest.

I will say threads like the veteran fall in line was inspirational and motivating. Now that is what I am talking about. Not hissing and moaning threads.

Brian
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