Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-29-2016, 12:39 PM   #1
PKI
Rivet Master
 
PKI's Avatar
 
2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Walnut Creek , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,005
Non-lethal force

We had a family conversation about the use of firearms for protection and the reluctance to use them for any number of reasons, including a lack of experience, restrictions on use, and moral objections.

It was suggested that Bear Spray might be a better solution for many folks. The problem being that it is a product with which most folks have no practical experience and it's use can be as debilitating to the user, as it is to the aggressor. One comment reported an event where both the bear and the human crawled off in opposite directions blinded and struggling to breath due to the effect of the spray. You can't run far if you are in a trailer, but there is water to wash down and wipe off the effect of the spray.

Has anyone developed experience with a bear spray product and found one to be better than another? Any legal constraints? Any best practices for storage? Any first aid best practices if you get as good as you give?

Are there other non-lethal methods that you have proven to be effective?

Appreciate your comments. Thank you and travel safe! Pat
__________________

__________________
PKI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 12:56 PM   #2
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743


It's more effective, and will only incapacitate the person on the receiving end. Different folks have different reactions to the spray. They make everyone get blasted with the weapons grade stuff in bootcamp and teach you how to handle it. Most law enforcement get to experience being shocked. Bigger people are less prone to put down than smaller people.
__________________

__________________
Family of 4 living, working & exploring the USA in our Airstream.
OUR BLOG | FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 01:00 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
DanB's Avatar
 
1970 23' Safari
2005 30' Classic
1986 31' Sovereign
Lorain , Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,616
Images: 9
Your defending against a human right? Why use wasp spray or bear spray? It doesn't work as well as properly designed pepper spray and is in fact illegal.
__________________
DanB
________________________________
Proud Member of the Wally Byam Airstream Club #24260

www.campnova.com

The “Ohio Airstreamer -- Informal forum for weekend camping” thread.
DanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 01:02 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Lumatic's Avatar

 
1971 25' Tradewind
1993 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Estancia , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,642
Images: 16
Blog Entries: 1
I think the non law enforcement taser does not have the stopping force of the law enforcement version. They also don't work every time.
__________________
Sail on silver girl. Sail on by. Your time has come to shine.
Lumatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 01:25 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Lily&Me's Avatar

 
2006 22' Interstate
Normal , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,547
I just want to say this....there are 169,000 miles on this Interstate, the last 23,000 of which I have put on by myself.

It has spent at least one overnight in all of the lower 48 states in the past 9 years of ownership.

Prior to the Interstate, we put 20,000 or so miles on a 77 Barth.

Never one time were we, or I, in a situation where we were even concerned about our physical safety from another person, much less had to defend ourselves.

Now, a bear in the wilds, that could be more of a possibility.


Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚❤️
Lily&Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 02:38 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
sheriff1's Avatar
 
2014 30' Flying Cloud
Sparks , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily&Me View Post
I just want to say this....there are 169,000 miles on this Interstate, the last 23,000 of which I have put on by myself.



It has spent at least one overnight in all of the lower 48 states in the past 9 years of ownership.



Prior to the Interstate, we put 20,000 or so miles on a 77 Barth.



Never one time were we, or I, in a situation where we were even concerned about our physical safety from another person, much less had to defend ourselves.



Now, a bear in the wilds, that could be more of a possibility.





Maggie

In over 30k miles traveled in the last 2 years I have never had a flat tire, still I carry a spare and a jack...


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"
__________________
sheriff1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 02:53 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,136
Images: 24
If you feel you need home protection against intruders why not give yourself an overwhelming advantage. I'd suggest a semi automatic or pump shotgun as it has decent stopping power and your aim doesn't have to be perfect. Plus it's real loud.
__________________
kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 02:56 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Llando88's Avatar
 
2016 30' Flying Cloud
Tampa , Florida
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 654
Non-lethal force

Hi Pat - I share your interest. I recently attended a self-defense weekend seminar in Memphis, Rangemaster's Tactical Conference 2016.

One of the segments was on the use of pepper spray by a national firearms / self defense expert trainer. We learned pepper spray is a very effective less-than-lethal option. We practised with inert training units, so that we could get familiar with how pepper spray is used.

Below are some bullet points drawn from memory. I hope you find them useful.

- "Sabre Red" is one of the most popular and effective sprays. Hand-held units are extremely effective at immobilising your attacker and allowing you to GAIN DISTANCE.
- We used a flip-top, thumb press cartridge unit in the class. The click-click-click of the flip top is a very good way to warn the person coming closer; the clicking of the top should be accompanied by a powerful verbal command, for example: STOP! I CANT HELP YOU!!
- He also suggested a stream spray, so as to direct it towards the eyes. Cone and fog sprays are not as recommended.
- Also, he did not recommend the 'three in one' type of OC / Pepper spray, as the tear gas and UV marking elements have not proven useful by law enforcement.

Generally, the use of wasp spray as an alternative was not recommended, as studies and experience has shown that wasp spray is completely ineffective at deterring aggression, compared to OC / pepper spray.

Here is a picture of our trainer unit:



Good luck!

Rich
__________________
2016 30' Flying Cloud / 2016 Ram 2500 Diesel 4x4

“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by, and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.” - J.C. Watts Jr.
Llando88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 04:05 PM   #9
Full Time Adventurer
 
BoldAdventure's Avatar
 
2007 27' International CCD FB
Nomadic , USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743
The problem is Maggie it's literally the lottery. We do live in the most safest time of all human history, despite what the news would lead one to think. Your chances of dying at the hands of another human are super rare. I've never felt the need for a weapon, except once when I won the lottery.

I had someone approach me in a parking lot asking for money and when I refused pull a knife on me and proceeded to basically rob me since I didn't want trouble. My choices were, refuse and see what happened, or comply and hope nothing else happened.

I did three years of Krav Maga, and one thing of particular interest to me is learning to identify and de-esclate a situation. Not every encounter will require lethal or deadly force. Some may be completely avoidable, learning to recognize, respond and react is probably even more important than choosing something for defense in my opinion.

Of particular interest, even buying and learning to use a defensive weapon doesn't mean you'll react the same way under press or high stress. Amateurs practice till perfect, professionals practice till failure and then attempt to learn from their mistakes.

Defense training is something I'd recommend people look into. Especially learning to recognize and size up a threat. I never saw that guy in the parking lot until he was within 10 feet, and even then, thinking back, I could of recognized he posed a threat, and moved myself to a safer position. Instead, I had put myself between him and my car.

Anyhow, thinking about how you handle yourself, how to handle yourself, how to respond to threats, I think is more important than what defensive weapon should I get.

A weapon won't help you if you can't respond properly under a high stress situation when you're likely to react poorly.
__________________
Family of 4 living, working & exploring the USA in our Airstream.
OUR BLOG | FACEBOOK | INSTAGRAM
BoldAdventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 04:19 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
Mrjkq's Avatar
 
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Venice , Florida
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
We had a family conversation about the use of firearms for protection and the reluctance to use them for any number of reasons, including a lack of experience, restrictions on use, and moral objections.

It was suggested that Bear Spray might be a better solution for many folks. The problem being that it is a product with which most folks have no practical experience and it's use can be as debilitating to the user, as it is to the aggressor. One comment reported an event where both the bear and the human crawled off in opposite directions blinded and struggling to breath due to the effect of the spray. You can't run far if you are in a trailer, but there is water to wash down and wipe off the effect of the spray.

Has anyone developed experience with a bear spray product and found one to be better than another? Any legal constraints? Any best practices for storage? Any first aid best practices if you get as good as you give?

Are there other non-lethal methods that you have proven to be effective?

Appreciate your comments. Thank you and travel safe! Pat

Being a believer in the 2nd Amendment and a concealed permit holder, I admire your reluctance to use a firearm for defense and finding an alternative method. Many don't realize that once you shoot someone your life forever changes.
__________________
Joe
Venice, FL
2016 FC 25RTB
TAC FL-47
2016 Nissan Titan XD Cummins Diesel
Mrjkq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 04:33 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
McDave's Avatar
 
2014 23' Flying Cloud
Fair Oaks , California
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 587
The pocket size containers of pepper spray are certainly better than nothing. If you sense a threat, you can take it out of your pocket and conceal it in your hand until you need to put it away again or use it. Never threaten someone with a pocket sized container of pepper spray; 90% of the effectiveness is surprise.

I can almost guarantee you that you will not have a bear-sized can of bear spray available if you need it, unless you are in the wilderness with bears and carry it on your belt. It will be in a drawer somewhere, if you even remember where it is. Unless you have an interest in firearms to the extent that you get trained and get a CCW permit, the same applies to them.

Someone gave me a pocket size container of pepper spray some years ago, and I promptly put it in the glove box of my truck and forgot about it. When I went over the Canadian border, they asked if I had any and I remembered and they confiscated it. When I got back to the US, I reminded myself that I'm not as young as I used to be, and not as able to defend myself. Plus, I have a dog I love and would hate for her to be attacked and injured or killed by another dog. For those reasons, I bought another container and now carry it around in my pocket all the time. It's become as natural as putting my keys in my pocket.

It would certainly not be as effective as a Remington 870 12 ga. shotgun if I were attacked, but it is there all the time and the shotgun wouldn't be.
__________________
McDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 05:47 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
Foiled Again's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,883
In my lifetime I have known 2 people who were murdered. One at a teenage dance, and another by her husband.

I've known 3 families who've had a family member seriously wounded or killed by a child who got hold of a gun that was kept "for protection".

I've been mugged once - grabbed from behind by a knife carrying assailant steps from my front porch. I made a wild instinctive over the shoulder grab and screamed so loud that neighbors half a block away responded. I have NO idea what happened to my assailant - he was never caught. But a good portion of his upper lip and mustache was gently pried out of my hand by a police officer. A gun or a can of pepper spray would have been useless because the real problem was that I was in my comfort zone and my guard was down. I was caught utterly unprepared.

I'm much more situationally aware - and aware that the real danger often lurks where you feel most comfortable. Hopefully I'll never need to worry again, but I don't think a weapon is the right answer for me now. I've chosen to drive away from one or two uncomfortable looking campgrounds... and once when I felt like I was being followed I changed route to a 7-11 where I knew the police hung out.

Paula
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
Foiled Again is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 05:47 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Davenport , Iowa
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,455
Blog Entries: 1
I haven't been to Krypton lately; so I have to rely on something else.
mike
__________________
Airtandem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2016, 06:10 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
1999 30' Excella 1000
small town , Maryland
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 629
You beat me to it PKI. I was about to start a ''tactical gadget thread'', and was educating myself on gadgets. A bright 3k lumen flashlight in the eyes will takes a person 2 minutes to regain focus. Their is pepper spray in a pen. Also tactical pens with a practical end, as well as the business end . A knife key which is very interesting. A 120db alarm on your keychain. All of this is on Amazon, and look at ''best seller'' aka most popular. Great thread I also admire your non-lethal approach, just in case you ''meet a bear'' shall we say
__________________

__________________
streaminwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.