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Old 03-30-2016, 05:22 AM   #41
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I guess it boils down to perspective. For me being single, I'm at peace with myself should anything happen, and carry a rubber band for my index finger. If I add a loved one, then the dynamics change and maybe a S&W 45 . Kids.... I would have a m-4 with a 100 round barrel clip per child, or a ''Grandfathered'' street sweeper for Canada. Single people have less to lose compared to families with kids. ''Bears'' prey on easy targets...single people vs a crowd. Just be alert everyone, and always listen to your gut. You can't enjoy life if your living in fear.
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Old 03-30-2016, 08:25 AM   #42
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I went out to a outdoor shooting range with my brother in law and his son about a month ago. I had expressed an interest in purchasing a firearm for personal protection. I was able to shoot their 22 revolver, 22 rifle and several semi auto handguns and rifles. I was able to hit the targets mostly. The experience was good but it didn't generate enough interest to bother with going through research and a purchase decision, background checks, familiarizing oneself with local/state/federal laws, maintenance and proper storage, and regular shooting practice. I'm not sure I would be able to use it in an adverse situation. I guess I don't think things are bad enough yet but I'm keeping an open mind.

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Old 03-30-2016, 09:09 AM   #43
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Knife to a Gunfight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
We had a family conversation about the use of firearms for protection and the reluctance to use them for any number of reasons, including a lack of experience, restrictions on use, and moral objections.

It was suggested that Bear Spray might be a better solution for many folks. The problem being that it is a product with which most folks have no practical experience and it's use can be as debilitating to the user, as it is to the aggressor. One comment reported an event where both the bear and the human crawled off in opposite directions blinded and struggling to breath due to the effect of the spray. You can't run far if you are in a trailer, but there is water to wash down and wipe off the effect of the spray.

Has anyone developed experience with a bear spray product and found one to be better than another? Any legal constraints? Any best practices for storage? Any first aid best practices if you get as good as you give?

Are there other non-lethal methods that you have proven to be effective?

Appreciate your comments. Thank you and travel safe! Pat
As the ole sayin goes, "It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight!" I try to always be as sure as possible, that I'm never caught in that situation, when it comes to defending my family or myself. I saw a sticker on the back of a NY pickup the other day, that I thought summed it up pretty well. "Criminals Prefer Their Victims Be UNARMED!" As I was taught in an earlier career, "always bring enough gun!"
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:30 PM   #44
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43 posts and all doing reasonably well so far. Thanks!

I understand that this thread may promote an inappropriate perception of fear. Consequently, talking about the good experience folks have helps a lot. Thank you for your input. It really does help. We too have felt no real need for personal protection on our limited travel, so we agree.

We have 17 posts that included alternatives to Bear Spray. The taser, pepper spray, flash light, horn and other chemical sprays offer interesting considerations. Thank you. Any other ideas.

We have 2 posts which addressed the legality of alternatives. As I understand the issue, using Bear Spray specifically as an anti-personal weapon can be subject to a $500,000 fine in Canada. It appears you can have Bear Spray, but not Pepper Spray. The consequences in the US are less specific or I have not found them yet. More investigation required for sure.

We have 10 posts which are null, positive or negative and make the point that circumstances vary for folks and that was a key point of this posting. You are encouraged to continue with this type of comment, but hold on over playing the gun perspective. The focus of the thread is on alternatives and your experience from that perspective is appreciated.

We have 8 posts that have no value, other than humor. Maybe we need that. Maybe not.

What we do not have is much specific experience with bear spray. Maybe that is a good thing.

Again, thank you for your information. Experience with alternatives is appreciated.

Travel safe and be aware, but not overly concerned. There are a lot of smiles out there. If you feel uncomfortable, leave, slow down or stop. Pat
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:06 PM   #45
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Threads like this one help me consider different viewpoints. Before we got our AS, if we were traveling by car across part of the country, we never carried any type of protection, and so far our approach for traveling hasn't changed since we got our AS and started using it.

It's not uncommon to see a comment that goes something like - I'd rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it, but there is another just as valid option. I'd rather not need it and not have it. Could something happen? Sure, but we could also get crushed by a falling boulder or something along that line. I think everyone should do what makes them comfortable. Maybe over time my viewpoint will change.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:45 PM   #46
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Bear spray humor. In 2012 a group of us backpacked west to east across Glacier NP on a little used trail. Most everyone had a side arm and everyone had the jumbo deluxe can of bear spray. After fording the river our fearless leader went off into the woods to take care of some personal business. I told his youngest son that we should get our bear spray out and practice since we were likely to see bears during our hike. So, we removed the protective doothingy and sprayed a few times like the directions state. Almost immediately we hear Tom, who was still in the woods, coughing like crazy. He couldn't stop and only we knew the reason. We had inadvertently tested our spray upwind of Toms hideout and he was getting the effects of our testing. When I told Tom what was causing his cough he gave me a screwy look, but thanked me for helping his son with his spray. We never saw any bears and ended up selling back the unused canisters. Great trip otherwise.

Pepper spray does have an expiration date so make sure yours is good.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:36 PM   #47
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MrPrez - so you would recommend BS to flush out a Fearless Leader, correct?

Do you remember the brand? How far does it spray? Thanks for the chuckle. Pat
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:44 PM   #48
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UDAP....a great bear spray
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Old 03-30-2016, 07:57 PM   #49
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MrPrez - so you would recommend BS to flush out a Fearless Leader, correct?

Do you remember the brand? How far does it spray? Thanks for the chuckle. Pat
Sorry, I don't remember the brand name. Seem to remember the can was black. The spray would shoot straight out for about 25' and then fan out.

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Old 03-30-2016, 09:05 PM   #50
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I'm thinking about a 36 oz wooden Louisville Slugger in case a ball game should break out


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Old 03-30-2016, 11:22 PM   #51
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In the spirit of alternatives, I offer the news that I always travel with over 300 pounds of trained canines. Loving creatures that they are, inappropriate behavior may result in bodily harm; especially any directed at the lady that feeds them I'd rather they get hurt than my traveling companions, but not much.
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Old 03-31-2016, 04:56 AM   #52
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Just carry "Easy-off" it will spray about 12-15' and once in the eyes of your visitor, he or she will not be going anywhere. As important, you can cross any international boarder you wish with Easy-off and it's a non issue.


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Curious, have you any actual experience with this method of personal defense?
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:57 AM   #53
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I think you better use spray that the police use.
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:06 AM   #54
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Curious, have you any actual experience with this method of personal defense?
You mean, aside from accidentally getting a faceful of the stuff while cleaning an oven? Anyone who has will tell you, you lose interest in everything else except washing out your eyes and rinsing the taste out of your mouth!
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:00 AM   #55
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Is that the voice of experience?
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:35 AM   #56
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Have a request out to my best Bear Spray practical information source. Hope to have that result soon. The internet search turned up the UDAP, Counter Attack, and Guard Alaska, Pepper enforcement, and Frontiersman as known brands.

The research on self defense pepper spray identifies Sabre Red, the Mace Pistol, and Police Magnum brands. The Mace is recommended as a familiar shape and operating principle. However, it is limited in capacity. The Sabre comes in several sizes including a large capacity dispenser for home use. Safety is similar to a fire extinguisher pin so it has a familiar operation as well, assuming the user is practiced in the use of a fire extinguisher.

Canada allows hikers to carry Bear Spray into the country, but the product must leave the country when they go home. Bear Spray product is available in Canada. Getting the feel that taking Bear Spray into Canada may not be possible in a vehicle, but more research is needed to clarify.

Baseball bat? We stayed at a campground where a spirited game was being played last fall. Before we left, there were two incidents of serious conflict and the local police were called. So, take care if you play ball and a bit of drink is involved. Certainly the all American pass time when played with only bragging rights on the line.

How about the old folks walking stick? Looking at fly fishing and a wadding staff is advised. Brother uses a long stick picked up local to the stream, but I've always has interest in the Irish walking stick. Recently, a clothes rod fell to hand that seemed a possible solution. Understand there are classes that teach skills to amplify the effectiveness of a cane.

The air horn information lists some at 112db, but a 130db is also available. The interesting side note was that the 130db unit uses a flammable propellant as compared to a compressed air recharge.

Travel safe. Pat
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:54 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
Is that the voice of experience?
Oh, yes! Which to me emphasizes one of the drawbacks of Easy-Off as a weapon of convenience. The spray button on top is cylindrical and it's not always easy to tell by feel if you have it pointed in the right direction. When I accidentally got a faceful, I had set the can down to answer the phone, and then picked it up again after the call— without checking to see if I picked it up in exactly the same orientation as when I set it down. Twenty agonizing minutes of eyewashing with a handheld shower nozzle (and a trip to my ophthalmologist) later, I had learned my lesson, which was, always wear safety goggles when using spray cleaners!

So if all I had ready to hand was Easy-Off, I'd use it, because I know from experience that it will at least slow down an attacker. But I'd take a few moments to make sure which way the nozzle was pointed first!

Bear spray and other self-defense sprays have activating devices that have ergonomic shapes which make it easy to tell by feel whether you have the business end pointed downrange. That alone makes them infinitely preferable to household sprays as defensive weapons.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:57 AM   #58
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Safety is similar to a fire extinguisher pin so it has a familiar operation as well, assuming the user is practiced in the use of a fire extinguisher.
And of course a fire extinguisher is also a field-expedient self-defense spray, as well as a suitable blunt object for smacking them upside the head when the spray runs out.
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:39 AM   #59
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Curious, have you any actual experience with this method of personal defense?
When we lived in the Arctic intruders were often a problem including both Polar Bears and the 2-legged kind. Our local Staff Sargent with the RCMP commented one day that because I was away so much that it would be a good idea for Sharon (my wife) to keep a jug of Easy Off at the ready. If she had an intruder at the door (either 2 or 4 legged type) just use the Easy Off and then call them....

She never had to use it but a jug sat at our house door for more than 20-years!
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:28 PM   #60
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AF - Is "jug" a common name for a container, or does EO come in a bottle in Canada? Only seen it in a spray can here in the states. Pat
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