Non-lethal force

[J. Morgan]

A bright flashlight is a great deterrence.

As far as any Canadians who don't understand Americans "obsession" with the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, if you stay in Canada you don't have to worry yourself about this, or the half of the statistics that you like to make mention of.


Superat stultitia.

[Rich Jenkins]

Originally Posted by PKI

Did hear that using wasp spray was a possibility, but have not seen any information on how well it works. I think of it in lethal terms for the wasp and translate that capability to assume a toxicity to humans. Is it more or less toxic than bear spray...

Pat - Every LEO expert I know, including a nationally-recognized trainer on OC spray, has indicated wasp spray is completely ineffective as a less than lethal self-defense option.

Rich

[PKI]

Thanks Rich - so noted - lots of misconceptions get passed along on the internet. Good to correct them when possible. Pat

[streaminwild]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

Just carry "Easy-off" it will spray about 12-15' and once in the eyes of your visitor, he or she will not be going anywhere. As important, you can cross any international boarder you wish with Easy-off and it's a non issue.


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Articfox, Are you implying the oven cleaner? If so, how do you make it spray 12- 15'? I hope I'm not telling on myself, knowing the 6'' spray pattern on oven cleaner The knife key is worth looking into for $2.00. What's another key to the wad? By the way, I love the picture of you and your wife around the campfire...a classic...................... Another Idea, a balanced walking stick made out of hickory for hiking of course. A billy club inside the trailer?

[PKI]

[QUOTE=rmkrum;1769307]I agree on the bright LED flashlight, especially if it is built heavy and solid enough to use as a club if necessary. Most of the sheriffs deputy's I knew growing up carried a 5 D-cell Maglight. As effective as a standard baton in a pinch, and very effective illumination for use of other tools. :Quote]

Costco sells a 1200 Lumen Duracell LED flashlight for less than $20. About the right size to hand. It is a (4) C-cell unit, so not as heavy as a big Mag light. Have only one of those left and it did not make the last trip. Pat

[PKI]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

-- snip -- sometimes a gentle persuader is needed -- snip -- Tony

We had a relative who manufactured and sold a training device for race horses. Made for a lot of practical jokes over time. Glad to have only been party to the stories and not the events. Would have to get to close to the bear to be practical. Pat

[streaminwild]

Originally Posted by PKI

Would have to get to close to the bear to be practical. Pat

Bear is being used as a metaphor...right?

[Arcticfox]

Originally Posted by streaminwild

Articfox, Are you implying the oven cleaner? If so, how do you make it spray 12- 15'? I hope I'm not telling on myself, knowing the 6'' spray pattern on oven cleaner The knife key is worth looking into for $2.00. What's another key to the wad? By the way, I love the picture of you and your wife around the campfire...a classic...................... Another Idea, a balanced walking stick made out of hickory for hiking of course. A billy club inside the trailer?

Yes the oven cleaner. The spray bottle it comes in has an adjustment on the nozzle that you can set to fan spray or shoot in a stream. The stream spray setting shoots it a long way.
Thanks for the kind words on my image


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[streaminwild]

Articfox, Does oven cleaner damage the eyes. Thinking lawsuit if damage is permanent. Have not seen a adjustable nozzle yet.

[Arcticfox]

I'm actually not sure. I would think it might not be very good for them. That said, it does a lot less damage than a bullet. My guess it would be very similar to pepper sray, but I'm not sure.




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[PKI]

Easy-off is a Flammable aerosol that may be corrosive to metals.
Causes severe skin burns and eye damage. First aid requires a quick flushing with water.

Does not seem to be a primary plan, but if cleaning oven when the bear comes in - ????

OC Pepper spray is reported to not work on bears. A large quantity container of bear spray with a long distance spray capability that lasts 5-7 seconds appears to be a good bear deterrent. Caution, a bear spray can serve as an attractant. If not cleaned up after use, bears may destroy the surface on which it was sprayed. Pat

[Isuzusweet]

Okay, okay, so going mano-mano with a bear, or your wife, with a cattle prod is just too close quarter for you.......how about this for non-lethal force......could be a little clumbersome in the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrxHCuHnvwg

Cheers
Tony

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

I just want to say this....there are 169,000 miles on this Interstate, the last 23,000 of which I have put on by myself.

It has spent at least one overnight in all of the lower 48 states in the past 9 years of ownership.

Prior to the Interstate, we put 20,000 or so miles on a 77 Barth.

Never one time were we, or I, in a situation where we were even concerned about our physical safety from another person, much less had to defend ourselves.

Now, a bear in the wilds, that could be more of a possibility.


Maggie

Maggie, I am with you on this one. Comparing a gun to a tire jack in my mind is just wrong wrong wrong. The core of the problem is in the heads of many people. Comparing things to a lottery in my mind has no logic - if someone surprises me it does not matter if I have a bottle of bear spray or a gun because these items will be stored away from kid's hands (and hopefully out of their sight and minds). The result is that the weapons will not be effective in case of surprise. The danger however comes from taking out the spray or the gun and from "posing" with the items, perhaps after a drink to so... or perhaps after arguing with someone... This is the true danger. Of course, nobody here would do these kind of things...

[BoldAdventure]

Nothing is more powerful than the power of love. You can over come anyone with love.

[Protagonist]

As long as I'm in my home state, I would have no qualms about using oven cleaner or wasp spray in self defense even knowing that it could permanently blind a human assailant. Louisiana has a rather permissive legal structure with regard to self defense, including the right to protect yourself inside a motor vehicle— which my Airstream Interstate happens to be— as if it was your home.

But as soon as I cross into another state, I'd be a lot more circumspect, because there are some asinine states out there where victims are supposed to understand that they ARE victims and not fight back lest they face civil and/or criminal liability for injuring their assailant.

That said, I do also carry bear spray in my Interstate for defense against four-footed assailants, but thankfully never had to use it (yet) aside from sacrificing one canister to test it out against a tree stump just to see for myself what kind of range, duration, and accuracy the spray actually had.

[streaminwild]

Bold, I've heard the cliche ''I love them to death'', but never witness it at work Let Karma do the dirty work. Karma shows no mercy. I've seen it work...I'm sure we all have. Bad things seem to happen to bad people...so be good everyone. And the ones that escape Karma, they will be dealt with in the afterlife.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

. . . how about this for non-lethal force......could be a little clumbersome in the trailer.
. . .

Spudnik?

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by Knuff

Maggie, I am with you on this one. Comparing a gun to a tire jack in my mind is just wrong wrong wrong. The core of the problem is in the heads of many people. Comparing things to a lottery in my mind has no logic - if someone surprises me it does not matter if I have a bottle of bear spray or a gun because these items will be stored away from kid's hands (and hopefully out of their sight and minds). The result is that the weapons will not be effective in case of surprise. The danger however comes from taking out the spray or the gun and from "posing" with the items, perhaps after a drink to so... or perhaps after arguing with someone... This is the true danger. Of course, nobody here would do these kind of things...

In my opinion....these threads whip up and promote a perception....foisted onto newbies... that danger lurks everywhere....danger as we travel, from which we must be prepared to defend ourselves at any moment, by whatever means legal and effective.

Then we hear from those who are afraid to shop at or stay in Walmart and other places/areas people unlike them frequent, because they are uncomfortable with the way the people there....lower income and ethnically diverse people ....look, dress, act, the language they speak, etc.

I don't believe that holding and nurturing irrational fears of those who are not like us helps improve anyone's quality of life....nor the quality of travel around this country, where people look, act and live differently.

Isn't that what we're doing....traveling? And isn't the goal to enjoy that travel.....to explore and embrace this beautiful and diverse country....rather than be suspicious of the natives, hyper-vigilant and ready to defend?

Being aware of ones surroundings, taking reasonable precautions, seems to get most of us through our extended travels all over this country.

No, I am not anti gun. Doug always carried at least one, and never once had to use it...or even threaten to.


Maggie

[paiceman]

The concern one should have is not necessarily in campgrounds, it's rest stops and gas stations or if one breaks down on the side of the road. We have auto, Airstream and home owners insurance, medical insurance, we have fire extinguishers, we have spare tires for TV and AS and we have personal protection. Look up the laws for each state one travels to in the Attorney Generals sections. Every state is different with respect to what one can do, what one can use etc. Even down to the difference between a travel trailer and a motorhome, as with respect to firearms in many states there is a significant difference.

Bud

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Spudnik?

My apologise's, as I didn't realize this simple but effective deterent could be construed as a Communist weapon of starchy destruction.

Cheers
Tony