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Old 12-05-2017, 01:32 PM   #57
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Sourced from Patagonia's website:

There is Broad Public Support for Protecting Federal Public Lands


Over 2.7 million public comments poured in during the Department of the Interior’s 60-day comment period—a record-breaking response. More than 98 percent of those comments expressed support for maintaining or expanding national monuments.[1]

[1] Center for Western Priorities, July 2017

The Outdoor Industry Relies on Public Lands

Shutting down a national monument, or any major portion of a national monument, could have a devastating impact on local economies and the multibillion-dollar outdoor recreation economy that America’s public lands and waterways support.[2]

Public lands host 71 percent of climbers, 70 percent of hunters and 43 percent of paddlers in America, and they also contain nearly 200,000 miles of hiking trails and 13,000 miles of mountain biking trails.[3]

Outdoor recreation is among America’s largest industries, contributing 7.6 million jobs and $887 billion in annual consumer spending— far outpacing the jobs and spending generated by the oil and gas industry.[4]

[2] Headwaters Economics, August 2017

[3] ProtectOurPublicLand.org

[4] Outdoor Industry Association Economic Report, 2017

States Have Historically Sold Off Federal Lands


History shows that when the federal government grants, sells or otherwise gifts federal land to states, 70 percent of the land is sold to private interests, jeopardizing public access.[5]

States have different rules for land management, and private lands are often not accessible to the general public, meaning the transfer of federal lands to private hands could impact outdoor activity and access.[6

[5] Field and Stream, April 2017

[6] Backcountry Hunters and Anglers 2016 Report
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:34 PM   #58
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Most of the lands made into the Escalante and Bears Ears National Monuments were previously public lands-- managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Forest Service (Abajo Mtns.) Originally part of the federal government's public domain. With a sprinkling of state trust lands (the so-called school sections) and private lands. So far as I know, no private lands were taken for either National Monument. So it not quite accurate to describe the monument designation as a federal land grab.

What does change are special protections on those lands. A monument is focused on preservation. The BLM and USFS are mandated to manage minerals leasing, grazing permits, logging, recreation, as well as fish and wildlife. Generally arrangements can be made with local ranchers to grandfather in certain permits when a monument is established.

There is pressure within Utah for the state to sell its inholdings for private real estate development. Which is happening near Moab.

We've camped extensively in this area and in neighboring BLM lands. Ideally if the monuments are shrunk, the current land management agencies will push for more, rather than less stewardship on their land holdings.

I would encourage anyone intrigued by these monuments to visit. The BLM and USFS manage primitive campgrounds and trails in the area. Plus you can pretty well boondock anywhere you want not posted to the contrary. There is also a fun Airstream campground/"motel in the town of Escalante. http://www.shootingstar-rvresort.com/ Just "know before you go" the sensible precautions for desert boondocking and travel in remote areas.

Personally we would like to see less OHV (4-wheeler, quad bike) use of this area, because they do tend to chew up the back roads. But we feel there is room for them on designated trails.

We would also like to see the maximum areas sustained. With all due respect to the small populations of local people who think differently, the American public's tax dollars are currently supporting the BLM and USFS. Many of the recreationists in the Escalante/Bears Ears backcountry now are not the dreaded "coastal" people but are fellow Utahns from the Wasatch Front. Public lands were never intended as the private preserve of a few.

Protection of Native American antiquities is especially important. Once they're destroyed by vandals and pot-hunters, they're gone for good. Which is, sadly, happening now.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:54 PM   #59
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Over 2.7 million public comments poured in during the Department of the Interior’s 60-day comment period—a record-breaking response. More than 98 percent of those comments expressed support for maintaining or expanding national monuments.
I assume the Department of the Interior was required to hold the comment period. So the Department of Interior ignored the public comments? Could the Interior Department have had made up their minds beforehand and the public comments were just a formality? Sounds more like a banana republic than a democracy.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:09 PM   #60
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Sounds more like a banana republic than a democracy.
We never had a democracy, we had a republic. We elect officials to do what's in the public interest, not what's in MY interest, necessarily. So you elected one administration who declared huge areas national monuments, and another who un-declared them.
I will say anyone who votes based on any one issue does a disservice to all. Unfortunately, it's getting harder and harder to find a candidate who thinks like I do on most things.
(and the ones who do get trampled by the wayside.)
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:14 PM   #61
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We never had a democracy, we had a republic. We elect officials to do what's in the public interest, not what's in MY interest, necessarily. So you elected one administration who declared huge areas national monuments, and another who un-declared them.
I will say anyone who votes based on any one issue does a disservice to all. Unfortunately, it's getting harder and harder to find a candidate who thinks like I do on most things.
Bingo. Furthermore, contrary to several mentions of "state's rights", there is no such thing. States have privileges and responsibilities. Only individuals have rights, and they are spelled out in the first ten amendments.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:34 PM   #62
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I read today that the authority to declare areas National Monuments is clear, the authority to un-declare them is in question.


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Old 12-05-2017, 04:35 PM   #63
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We never had a democracy, we had a republic. We elect officials to do what's in the public interest,
Exactly!
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:38 PM   #64
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Hey Mods. Never saw the "hot topic issue" disclaimer pop up before. Good idea!
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:40 PM   #65
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I don't see this thread as political. It is not Republicans vs Democrats or liberal vs conservative. If anything it is state rights vs federal rights. It is our land paid for by our dollars and to cut off this thread because it is "political" amounts to censorship. What better place for a discussion than a forum where members enjoy use of National Monuments?


I couldn’t agree more.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:10 PM   #66
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Bingo. Furthermore, contrary to several mentions of "state's rights", there is no such thing. States have privileges and responsibilities. Only individuals have rights, and they are spelled out in the first ten amendments.
Tell that to most southerners and you will get an argument. The whole country does not agree on almost anything including federal land and state land.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:16 PM   #67
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Tell that to most southerners.
Just stating what "is". No comment on right or wrong. Should've also stated that states have "powers" as well. We should probably brush up on the 10th amendment. I think it'll be challenged soon in the supreme court.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:05 PM   #68
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So let's just all be Happy Campers and try and figure this thing out. If I understand, Obama established Bears Ear last year. So it has only been protected for a year. What happens to it now? Does anyone know for sure? Does it go back to what it was, exactly? I would have some hope that if it hadn't been sold off and developed before, it may not now. Escalante has been protected longer. So that would a bit different? Doesn't it just go back to BLM land?
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:43 PM   #69
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Millions of acres set aside, now reduced to only hundreds of thousands set aside. This affects such a small segment of the population that its hardly a national story. Another example of the media stirring things up.


There is one ranger at Bears Ear to manage the whole national monument. In my opinion that is a big responsibility for one person.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:09 PM   #70
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So let's just all be Happy Campers and try and figure this thing out. If I understand, Obama established Bears Ear last year. So it has only been protected for a year. What happens to it now? Does anyone know for sure? Does it go back to what it was, exactly? I would have some hope that if it hadn't been sold off and developed before, it may not now. Escalante has been protected longer. So that would a bit different? Doesn't it just go back to BLM land?
It’s my understanding that the newly unprotected lands are being “opened up for development”, tho interested parties are going to try to stop the new order un-monumenting these designated National Monuments.

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