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Old 12-04-2017, 05:22 PM   #29
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Garsh. Oil & gas drilling. What a travesty. Especially as these RVs now run on distilled moonbeam juice.

“Sacred land”? What a hoot. I’d say the sacred family farmland confiscated by the banks in the 1930s and 1950s counts a great deal more. Immeasurably more. Or the several million homes confiscated circa 2009.

Down here, outside of what it’s had to pay for, or the State transferred, there’s not a single acre of Federal land in Texas. Somehow, we survive it. We don’t have all these acres of “parks” etc, paid for by residents of other states. We also don’t have the headaches of a big Federal presence (in that same way; the border is quite another story).

An examination of any map shows Utah well-endowed with Federal Parks. Count yourself lucky.

We don’t have fishing & hunting subsidized by the Feds, either, but public & private actors have improved what’s possible. Both are better than when I was a child.

The reading I see of the Antiquities act was that both Obama and Clinton used it wrongfully. That should be the concern if lamentations are to be heard. And a new intiative made. Nothing stops Utah from doing as much. That would the point of a state legislature. Where it rightfully belongs.

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Old 12-04-2017, 05:31 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=slowmover;2042090]Garsh. Oil & gas drilling. What a travesty. Especially as these RVs now run on distilled moonbeam juice.



Outside of what itís had to pay for, or the State transferred, thereís not a single acre of Federal land in Texas. Somehow, we survive it. We donít have all these acres of ďparksĒ etc, paid for by residents of other states. We also donít have the headaches of a big Federal presence (in that same way; the border is quite another story).



An examination of any map shows Utah well-endowed with Federal Parks. Count yourself lucky.



We donít have fishing & hunting subsidized by the Feds, either, but public & private actors have improved whatís possible. Both are better than when I was a child.



The reading I see of the Antiquities act was that both Obama and Clinton used it wrongfully. That should be the concern if lamentations are to be heard. And a new intiative made. Nothing stops Utah from doing as much. That would the point of a state legislature. Where it rightfully belongs.



.[QUOTE]



Perhaps that is why many many Texans go hunting, RVing and fishing in Colorado, Wyoming, Utah and Arizona to recreate on public lands. The reason public lands are federal is to prevent state interests, read logging, mining, grazing ad nauseum, from trashing lands more suited for recreation and wildlife. The Natives who occupy some of these public lands have not been considered here. Maybe we should ask them.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:51 PM   #31
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Did any of you read the bill. This frees up land for the states and turns over other land to be better managed by another agency. I hate cry babies!
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:06 PM   #32
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Did any of you read the bill. This frees up land for the states and turns over other land to be better managed by another agency. I hate cry babies!
That assumes another agency would better manage the land. What agency and what is their track record. It also brings up the question specificly how would these public lands be better managed.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:35 PM   #33
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I like many of you am saddened by the possibility of this land not being protected. But I understand the intent of the current administration on this day. I can't say I agree with it, but I understand it.

I am hopeful the land is protected regardless. Baxter State Park in Maine is an example of exceptional management on a state level. In fact I think Mount Kitahdin is better managed then what I have seen in several National Parks. States can do a good job. Let's hope for the best and be positive.

The animosity between the right and left is not productive. It's much of the problem.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:57 PM   #34
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It certainly seems to have struck a cord with the owners of Patagonia and REI.

check out www.patagonia.com
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:36 PM   #35
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While the subject of national monuments is within the umbrella of RV lifestyle interests, division by politics is not. This thread will remain open, however those wading into political finger pointing and rhetoric be advised that there is a very fine line. As such, letís be mindful of the CRís and post accordingly.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:58 PM   #36
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<<Mod Hat On>>

While the subject of national monuments is within the umbrella of RV lifestyle interests, division by politics is not. This thread will remain open, however those wading into political finger pointing and rhetoric be advised that there is a very fine line. As such, letís be mindful of the CRís and post accordingly.
Kevin...thanks for deleting my post. I used the "T" word here and I was way out of line.

Southern Utah is my favorite place on earth. I've spent countless summers and falls there. It breaks my heart to see it thrown to the wolves.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:23 PM   #37
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The Bears Ears were under the radar for years until they got mass notoriety when they were designated as a National Monument. Since then there has been an increase in looting of ancient ruins and desecration of petroglyphs. Even a report of someone cutting out a petroglyph with a power saw. So much for Federal protection.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:37 PM   #38
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The USA is the only country in the world that has been willing and able to protect their lands in a way that no other country on earth has. This is the honorable thing to do - greedy corporations and their goons are short lived. These places, their history, and their legacy will remain for generations. Protecting these places, and unconditionally supporting this protection, after all that happened to the native Americans is the right thing to do. It is the American way to stay on the side of the underdogs and to protect the beauty of these unique landscapes - if this is not happening any more and the land is thrown into the greedy pharynges of the oil and mining corporations, then a whole movement is being kicked into its testicles. A sad day for the USA.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:28 AM   #39
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The American Way is being marched forcefully off in a different direction these days, and reversing protections for these lands is one more step in a modern day trail of tears.

It is not a bright and shiny time in this country.

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Old 12-05-2017, 04:29 AM   #40
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Millions of acres set aside, now reduced to only hundreds of thousands set aside. This affects such a small segment of the population that its hardly a national story. Another example of the media stirring things up.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:40 AM   #41
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Baxter State Park in Maine is an example of exceptional management on a state level. In fact I think Mount Kitahdin is better managed then what I have seen in several National Parks. States can do a good job. Let's hope for the best and be positive.
Baxter State Park has an unusual, perhaps unique, status as a park. The land, most of which was in the hands of Great Northern, the paper company, was purchased privately by a former governor, who set it aside as a park and donated it to the State of Maine ... with provisions for its use.

In those provisions, he made it clear he wanted the land to be left as close as possible to its natural state, while also allowing the people of Maine (and others, such as myself) to enjoy its beauty.

A good model, I think, for others of great privilege to follow. Certainly a good example of the value of protecting natural resources of exception beauty and merit. Let's hear it for Governor Percival Baxter.

Baxter, by the way, served as governor in the first half of the 1920s, a time when the Ku Klux Klan was in resurgence, with many thousands of members in many states across the country, including his own.

Baxter took a strident stand against the KKK, while other members of his political party in Maine embraced the racist, terrorist organization (he paid for this when he ran for Congress and was thwarted by KKK members and the Klan's political allies).

As I said, let's hear it for Governor Percival Baxter.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:59 AM   #42
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Millions of acres set aside, now reduced to only hundreds of thousands set aside. This affects such a small segment of the population that its hardly a national story. Another example of the media stirring things up.
I may never visit National Parks such as American Samoa, Denali, Dry Tortugas or Haleaka, but I am richer in knowing they are there.
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