National Monuments Comment Period

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by Steamy1

This made me curious so I used a filter on the NPS web site for "National Monuments" with campgrounds, it is a pretty long list. Maybe the filter is showing other facilities, but it reported 671 results. I doubt this is right, but it would be interesting to find out the number of campgrounds (and sites)out of the total number of National Monuments.

Maybe that includes all the homeless sleeping on the sewer grates around the monuments in Washington.

[pcskier]

The order mandating the review of certain national monuments stated that these monuments 'may create barriers to energy independence.'

That tells you all you need to know about why some factions are in favor of decommissioning or downsizing some National Monuments. Here in Utah, Bears Ears (Dec 2016) and Grand Staircase Escalante (1996) are the two with a bulls eye on them, both are stuck in the craw of Utah's state and federal govt representatives. In fact it was probably Bears Ears that brought the whole issue to a head in the first place. Very controversial.

Besides specific campgrounds, both monuments provide vast lands available for recreation including boondocking.

Back to the spirit of the original post, the govt is inviting feedback on what the people would prefer, and obviously there will be preferences diametrically opposed to each other, with some in the middle. So wherever you stand, you have the right as an American to let your voice be heard.

[SeeMore]

Whatever the voices responding supplied as input, this will be the not-unexpected outcome:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/u...ears-ears.html

[Dingo Girl]

Bye bye Bears Ears & Grand staircase . What a sad day for anyone that enjoys the outdoors.

[bluegrass]

Originally Posted by Dingo Girl

Bye bye Bears Ears & Grand staircase . What a sad day for anyone that enjoys the outdoors.

We know who to thank for that assault on wild places...

[Philip Jones]

And it seems now would be the time to shut this down secondary to becoming political.

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by Philip Jones

And it seems now would be the time to shut this down secondary to becoming political.

I don't see this thread as political. It is not Republicans vs Democrats or liberal vs conservative. If anything it is state rights vs federal rights. It is our land paid for by our dollars and to cut off this thread because it is "political" amounts to censorship. What better place for a discussion than a forum where members enjoy use of National Monuments?

[KellySLC]

Being a Utah native (and descendant of the first mormon pioneers), I'm pretty bummed about the action against Escalante and Bears Ears, too. The reality is that the tribes for whom this land is sacred supported the designation and were not consulted in a meaningful way in its reduction. That is a fact, not a political statement.

You want political? Utah state lawmakers are shills for the oil and gas industries despite SLC having the worst air in the nation (google it, ours is the worst ... babies and old people can't even go outside in the winter). And our legislators are actively making solar impossible by forcing us to pay if we leave the grid. It's pretty heartbreaking to mt. bike near Dead Horse Point state park outside Moab and feel like you're on a slalom course with all the oil derricks. There ... That's a political post ... can you tell I'm angry?

[slowmover]

Garsh. Oil & gas drilling. What a travesty. Especially as these RVs now run on distilled moonbeam juice.

“Sacred land”? What a hoot. I’d say the sacred family farmland confiscated by the banks in the 1930s and 1950s counts a great deal more. Immeasurably more. Or the several million homes confiscated circa 2009.

Down here, outside of what it’s had to pay for, or the State transferred, there’s not a single acre of Federal land in Texas. Somehow, we survive it. We don’t have all these acres of “parks” etc, paid for by residents of other states. We also don’t have the headaches of a big Federal presence (in that same way; the border is quite another story).

An examination of any map shows Utah well-endowed with Federal Parks. Count yourself lucky.

We don’t have fishing & hunting subsidized by the Feds, either, but public & private actors have improved what’s possible. Both are better than when I was a child.

The reading I see of the Antiquities act was that both Obama and Clinton used it wrongfully. That should be the concern if lamentations are to be heard. And a new intiative made. Nothing stops Utah from doing as much. That would the point of a state legislature. Where it rightfully belongs.

.

[bluegrass]

[QUOTE=slowmover;2042090]Garsh. Oil & gas drilling. What a travesty. Especially as these RVs now run on distilled moonbeam juice.



Outside of what it’s had to pay for, or the State transferred, there’s not a single acre of Federal land in Texas. Somehow, we survive it. We don’t have all these acres of “parks” etc, paid for by residents of other states. We also don’t have the headaches of a big Federal presence (in that same way; the border is quite another story).



An examination of any map shows Utah well-endowed with Federal Parks. Count yourself lucky.



We don’t have fishing & hunting subsidized by the Feds, either, but public & private actors have improved what’s possible. Both are better than when I was a child.



The reading I see of the Antiquities act was that both Obama and Clinton used it wrongfully. That should be the concern if lamentations are to be heard. And a new intiative made. Nothing stops Utah from doing as much. That would the point of a state legislature. Where it rightfully belongs.



.[QUOTE]



Perhaps that is why many many Texans go hunting, RVing and fishing in Colorado, Wyoming, Utah and Arizona to recreate on public lands. The reason public lands are federal is to prevent state interests, read logging, mining, grazing ad nauseum, from trashing lands more suited for recreation and wildlife. The Natives who occupy some of these public lands have not been considered here. Maybe we should ask them.

[xrvr]

Did any of you read the bill. This frees up land for the states and turns over other land to be better managed by another agency. I hate cry babies!

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Did any of you read the bill. This frees up land for the states and turns over other land to be better managed by another agency. I hate cry babies!

That assumes another agency would better manage the land. What agency and what is their track record. It also brings up the question specificly how would these public lands be better managed.

[Ted S.]

I like many of you am saddened by the possibility of this land not being protected. But I understand the intent of the current administration on this day. I can't say I agree with it, but I understand it.

I am hopeful the land is protected regardless. Baxter State Park in Maine is an example of exceptional management on a state level. In fact I think Mount Kitahdin is better managed then what I have seen in several National Parks. States can do a good job. Let's hope for the best and be positive.

The animosity between the right and left is not productive. It's much of the problem.

[djarrett]

It certainly seems to have struck a cord with the owners of Patagonia and REI.

check out www.patagonia.com

[Kevin245]

<<Mod Hat On>>

While the subject of national monuments is within the umbrella of RV lifestyle interests, division by politics is not. This thread will remain open, however those wading into political finger pointing and rhetoric be advised that there is a very fine line. As such, let’s be mindful of the CR’s and post accordingly.

[interstateflyer]

Originally Posted by Kevin245

<<Mod Hat On>>

While the subject of national monuments is within the umbrella of RV lifestyle interests, division by politics is not. This thread will remain open, however those wading into political finger pointing and rhetoric be advised that there is a very fine line. As such, let’s be mindful of the CR’s and post accordingly.

Kevin...thanks for deleting my post. I used the "T" word here and I was way out of line.

Southern Utah is my favorite place on earth. I've spent countless summers and falls there. It breaks my heart to see it thrown to the wolves.

[mojo]

The Bears Ears were under the radar for years until they got mass notoriety when they were designated as a National Monument. Since then there has been an increase in looting of ancient ruins and desecration of petroglyphs. Even a report of someone cutting out a petroglyph with a power saw. So much for Federal protection.

[Knuff]

The USA is the only country in the world that has been willing and able to protect their lands in a way that no other country on earth has. This is the honorable thing to do - greedy corporations and their goons are short lived. These places, their history, and their legacy will remain for generations. Protecting these places, and unconditionally supporting this protection, after all that happened to the native Americans is the right thing to do. It is the American way to stay on the side of the underdogs and to protect the beauty of these unique landscapes - if this is not happening any more and the land is thrown into the greedy pharynges of the oil and mining corporations, then a whole movement is being kicked into its testicles. A sad day for the USA.
Hayduke lives my friends!

[Lily&Me]

The American Way is being marched forcefully off in a different direction these days, and reversing protections for these lands is one more step in a modern day trail of tears.

It is not a bright and shiny time in this country.

Maggie

[xrvr]

Millions of acres set aside, now reduced to only hundreds of thousands set aside. This affects such a small segment of the population that its hardly a national story. Another example of the media stirring things up.