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Old 05-09-2017, 01:31 PM   #15
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According to the internet....
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To laypeople, the distinction between lands designated as national parks and national monuments can appear finite. The primary difference lies in the reason for preserving the land: National parks are protected due to their scenic, inspirational, education, and recreational value. National monuments have objects of historical, cultural, and/or scientific interest, so their content is quite varied. For example, national monuments protect wilderness areas (such as*Muir Woods), fossil sites, military forts, ruins (such as the*Gila Cliff Dwellings), and buildings (such as*Fordís Theatre, where President Lincoln was assassinated).

I've observed than national monuments are generally small in size and generally don't offer camping, unlike national parks.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:39 PM   #16
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Hi Maggie,
I did not mean to imply that I was inviting a debate, just that I would personally enjoy one. But this is probably not the appropriate forum. There are plenty of other outlets for a political debate.

So to be clear, I am not advocating for a debate on this post.

Thanks Maggie!
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:41 PM   #17
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National Monuments are established by Presidential action under the provisions of the Antiquities Act. National Parks are established by a vote of Congress. Many current National Parks were originally National Monuments. I believe that Grand Canyon National Park was originally a National Monument established by Theodore Roosevelt.

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Old 05-09-2017, 01:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Steamy1 View Post
Hi Maggie,
I did not mean to imply that I was inviting a debate, just that I would personally enjoy one. But this is probably not the appropriate forum. There are plenty of other outlets for a political debate.

So to be clear, I am not advocating for a debate on this post.

Thanks Maggie!
I am glad to hear that.


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Old 05-09-2017, 02:03 PM   #19
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Why You Should Comment

The stated reason for initiating the review was “end another egregious use of government power.” Without delving into the political reasons behind reviewing governance of national monument lands in excess of 100,000 acres in size created after 1996 (designated by Clinton, Bush, & Obama), the outcome of the review may have material impact on the use of these lands for the purpose of recreational camping.

In short, the review will address 1) which entity (state or federal) will control decision-making regarding each monument, 2) which legal authority (sheriff, ranger, etc.) will enforce law pertaining to activities/violations on the land, 3) adjustments to established boundaries (they could be decommissioned), and 4) determining management missions which will result in rules prioritizing utilization from among conservation (watershed/wildlife/plant protection), exploitation (resource harvesting - mining/forestry/grazing), preservation (cultural/historical sites) and recreation.

Failure to communicate our desires for retention and recreational access (with camping options) to national monuments may result in the loss of this privilege to our community. FYI, the monuments list includes Grand Staircase-Escalante which was the first in 1996.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:12 PM   #20
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According to the internet....
***

I've observed than national monuments are generally small in size and generally don't offer camping, unlike national parks.
This made me curious so I used a filter on the NPS web site for "National Monuments" with campgrounds, it is a pretty long list. Maybe the filter is showing other facilities, but it reported 671 results. I doubt this is right, but it would be interesting to find out the number of campgrounds (and sites)out of the total number of National Monuments.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Steamy1 View Post
This made me curious so I used a filter on the NPS web site for "National Monuments" with campgrounds, it is a pretty long list. Maybe the filter is showing other facilities, but it reported 671 results. I doubt this is right, but it would be interesting to find out the number of campgrounds (and sites)out of the total number of National Monuments.
Maybe that includes all the homeless sleeping on the sewer grates around the monuments in Washington.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:06 PM   #22
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The order mandating the review of certain national monuments stated that these monuments 'may create barriers to energy independence.'

That tells you all you need to know about why some factions are in favor of decommissioning or downsizing some National Monuments. Here in Utah, Bears Ears (Dec 2016) and Grand Staircase Escalante (1996) are the two with a bulls eye on them, both are stuck in the craw of Utah's state and federal govt representatives. In fact it was probably Bears Ears that brought the whole issue to a head in the first place. Very controversial.

Besides specific campgrounds, both monuments provide vast lands available for recreation including boondocking.

Back to the spirit of the original post, the govt is inviting feedback on what the people would prefer, and obviously there will be preferences diametrically opposed to each other, with some in the middle. So wherever you stand, you have the right as an American to let your voice be heard.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:05 PM   #23
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Whatever the voices responding supplied as input, this will be the not-unexpected outcome:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/u...ears-ears.html
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:41 PM   #24
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Bye bye Bears Ears & Grand staircase . What a sad day for anyone that enjoys the outdoors.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:23 PM   #25
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Bye bye Bears Ears & Grand staircase . What a sad day for anyone that enjoys the outdoors.


We know who to thank for that assault on wild places...
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:32 PM   #26
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And it seems now would be the time to shut this down secondary to becoming political.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:41 PM   #27
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And it seems now would be the time to shut this down secondary to becoming political.
I don't see this thread as political. It is not Republicans vs Democrats or liberal vs conservative. If anything it is state rights vs federal rights. It is our land paid for by our dollars and to cut off this thread because it is "political" amounts to censorship. What better place for a discussion than a forum where members enjoy use of National Monuments?
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:17 PM   #28
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Expressing sadness about the loss of wild places isn't necessarily political.

Being a Utah native (and descendant of the first mormon pioneers), I'm pretty bummed about the action against Escalante and Bears Ears, too. The reality is that the tribes for whom this land is sacred supported the designation and were not consulted in a meaningful way in its reduction. That is a fact, not a political statement.

You want political? Utah state lawmakers are shills for the oil and gas industries despite SLC having the worst air in the nation (google it, ours is the worst ... babies and old people can't even go outside in the winter). And our legislators are actively making solar impossible by forcing us to pay if we leave the grid. It's pretty heartbreaking to mt. bike near Dead Horse Point state park outside Moab and feel like you're on a slalom course with all the oil derricks. There ... That's a political post ... can you tell I'm angry?
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