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Old 09-22-2008, 10:16 PM   #85
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If you aren't very very scared then you aren't paying attention. We just avoided or delayed a worldwide run on the financial system. Nevermind a run on a bank. When Hank Paulson looks afraid, things are not good.
Trips will be shorter and or fewer to save gas. On the other hand fewer trips to Europe may lead some to "see America". Predicting how this will play out is impossible on a macro level or micro level. We just don't have enough information about what choices people are making and why. Are they paying their credit cards and not their morgages? Not paying either and accumulating cash?
If the spending stops we will be leaning over the edge not just looking.
Buy a mattress with a safe in it....Keep the mattress in your Airstream. This is going to hurt...
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:33 PM   #86
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When the govt. wants more money, they simply print it, be it cash, bonds, treasury notes, or whatever. This "money" is borrowed from the "federal reserve", which is neither "federal", nor does it have any reserves. The collateral for this borrowed "money", are the collective assets of the American people. How much is the Grand Canyon worth?, or Yellowstone?,
or the huge chunk of America that is federal land? Strictly speaking, their is no need to tax anyone, the amount of tax money the govt. collects from the people, isn't enough to pay even the intrest on the national debt. The whole thing is a giant shell game, with no hard wealth (gold) to back it up.
Cheers...
Your right the Government prints way to much money.But worst is the Government bonbs and treasury notes are being bought by the Chines Government,we then take though's $$$ that are worth less each day and pay the Arab's for oil.And that is not the cowboy way
The house of Representatives just past the bill to allow offshore oil drilling.It isn't a drilling bill,it's an anti-drilling bill.This bill PERMANENTLY bans all drilling within 50 miles of the US coast,which just happens to be where most of the recoverable oil and gas reserves are.And that no honky tonk lie.
What I have not got in my head is if the Govenment can just print all $$$$ they want why do we have to pay them taxes.Just print more money and that would pay our taxes.And that would be John Deer green.
So get off the porch and be ready to run with the big dog's, it Airstreams,cash,gold and guns.
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:41 PM   #87
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What I have not got in my head is if the Govenment can just print all $$$$ they want why do we have to pay them taxes.Just print more money and that would pay our taxes.And that would be John Deer green.
So get off the porch and be ready to run with the big dog's, it Airstreams,cash,gold and guns.
Ahh you made me laugh. Well I guess my preparedness level is still at the beginning with an Airstream... which took care of me having cash, and lost my gold tooth but I do have a fly swatting gun. Can I run at the back? We need a wheel or mill to draw water and some bean sprouts for sure. I'm thinking they probably can't displace the whole of North America for defaulting because Mexico or Canada wouldn't care to deal with that many homeless and that's probably about as far as we could walk. Something's got to give unless they shoot debtors. Michigan must definitely be "over budget" ??????? People may want health care even though they have a "right" to work if no work exists. I mean they are alive for now an all... did no one tell them to pull themselves up?
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:24 AM   #88
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Rivet Suze Orman on Oprah today - 09/23/08

This is the first time I have seen this thread. I have gotten to page #4 and highly recommend not reading these posts just before retiring for the night. Too thought prevoking!!!!

I did want to mention an ad on tv for today's Oprah show. In case you are interested, SUZE ORMAN (<sp?) is going to be on. God knows we need all the advise and guidence we can get!!

suz
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:37 AM   #89
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Prayer???
I agree with you!!! Look up!!!
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:54 AM   #90
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Part of an article I read, interesting.......

For years, we Americans have spent more than we earned. We save nothing. Credit card debt, consumer debt, auto debt, mortgage debt, corporate debt ó all are at record levels. And with pensions and savings being wiped out, much of that debt will never be repaid.

Our standard of living is inevitably going to fall. For foreigners will not forever buy our bonds or lend us more money if they rightly fear that they will be paid back, if at all, in cheaper dollars.

We are going to have to learn to live again without our means.

The party's over

Up through World War II, we followed the Hamiltonian idea that America must remain economically independent of the world in order to remain politically independent.

But this generation decided that was yesterday's bromide and we must march bravely forward into a Global Economy, where we all depend on one another. American companies morphed into "global companies" and moved plants and factories to Mexico, Asia, China and India, and we began buying more cheaply from abroad what we used to make at home: shoes, clothes, bikes, cars, radios, TVs, planes, computers.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:00 AM   #91
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Goverment had little to do with our current economic state. It's nice to be able to point a finger with little understanding.
This one is about personal greed. Goes back to biblical times, Isaiah 46:6

"Some pour out gold from their bags
and weigh out silver on the scales;
they hire a goldsmith to make it into a god,
and they bow down and worship it."

Most all of us bare some degree of guilt in the roots of our current economic state. It's never enough in the pursuit of money as if it were wealth.

Tom
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:56 AM   #92
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My view is largely based upon Biblical prophecy, which I know is not real popular in the world today. However, as the times progress I do not believe that the U.S will be a major player in the world anymore. It is just amazingto me to see it all fall into place!!!
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:45 AM   #93
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future

If you want to predict the future, study up on your Roman history first! Me thinks the first Airstreams may have been chariots.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:39 AM   #94
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America has lived through worse times.

I was born during the Great Depression in 1935. The nation was just emerging from that economic crisis when we were plunged into WW2. Some of my memories of the war years are pretty clear and I remember the shortages, the rationing, etc. (my dad liked to tell of how he always had enough gas to do what was needed throughout the war years, but ran out of gas on VJ Day!). Most of all was the uncertainty. Contrary to what a lot of people say today, no one was absolutely sure then which side would be victorious. Thanks to a brave and determined military, committed and resolute political leaders, and a united home front, the right prevailed.

Extrapolate to today. Iím sorry, but this old man doesnít see the same mix. The men and women in uniform seem to be exemplary, but the committed and resolute political leaders, and a united home front seem to me to be missing from the scene. Because of this Iím not all that sure of the outcome of our present problems.

Throughout my forty-nine year career as a preacher, when compared with most professionals, I was on the very low end of the income scale. My wife and I agreed that she was much more valuable as a stay at home mom than any contribution sheíd make by bringing in a salary (no reflection on anyone who made different choices). The careful attention to our spending and the voluntary choice to limit our life-style to fit our income was a real challenge but now it is paying off in ways we never thought of. You see, living within oneís income is the secret, whether you are retired or a younger person going through tough economic times. When all those around you are buying all the latest gadgets, toys, cars, etc. and buying bigger and bigger houses, one feels like heís depriving his family, but the end result for a disciplined life is worth it.

Now, I hasten to say that living a disciplined life is not living deprived! I like nice things and I like quality stuff. Iíve owned some wonderful luxury carsóPackard, Mercedes, Cadillac Eldorado, Toronado, Lincolns, etc. Iíve owned two Airstreams. I live in an upscale neighborhood in a fairly large home. My wife and I like quality clothing. How have we done this on our limited income? By carefully buying good used cars, smart ďon-saleĒ clothing purchases. And not being too good for thrift stores and garage sales (would you believe brand-new Johnson & Murphy menís shoes for $10, or a nearly new Nordstromís sport coat for $4?). Just a couple of money-stretching examples. We read scores of books each year, almost all purchased at garage sales and thrift stores. We have just about everything we want! I read once that, ďHappiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have

I counseled numerous families on financial matters. The most common causes of trouble (not scientifically supported, just an old manís memory) were: little or no knowledge of money principles (the power of compound interest, the need for accurate record-keeping, what debt does to your family, etc.), undisciplined use of credit cards and other consumer debt, failure to keep current on normal household expenses, too much house for their income, unaffordable cars and other toys (ATVs, boats, motorcycles, etc.). I am appalled at how few high schools and colleges teach anything about family finances. What is taught is often more in the way of debt management than the true management of finances. Also, I must mention the factor of denial. You might be amazed that many people donít really know how much they owe. It seems they are depressed when they begin to calculate their debts, so they just deny the reality. I once counseled a family who had not balanced their check book in more than three years, yet they couldnít figure why so many checks were bouncing!

The two most significant things my wife and I have done that have enabled us to live comfortably in our retirement years are: 1. To be generous in our giving habits (no details here but giving is of primary importance), 2. To live debt free.

Sorry about the sermonizing, but after all, I have a license to preach!

Gene
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:14 AM   #95
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Hey look, America is just finally catching up with the rest of the world... My brother pays the equivalent of $10.00 a gal for gas in England..

Stop buying all the toys and using the interest only home loans...
Buy within your means and you will be just fine....

I won't buy anything (except a house) these days unless I can pay for it with cash or pay it off in a year.... New car included... bought it in May will have it paid for by end of December...

Don't charge it on the card if you can't pay it at the end of the month.... It's not a loan it just makes it convenient so you don't have to carry cash...

I remember going fishing as a kid all the time... Come to find out in the later years we didn't have money for food.... But I was happy and had clothes on my back...

People want it all and want it for free.........

We brought this on ourselves.. NOT THE GOVERNMENT>>>
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:45 AM   #96
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Jason,
My wife and I lived in Cedaredge in the late 1950s. We enjoyed fishing Surface Creek. If we caught something we had meat for dinner, if not, we had a meatless meal. Seriously, that is how we lived. Canned everything possible, ate wild game (not because we liked it but because it was cheap if you didn't have to go too far to shoot it), hauled our own coal and wood. Hard scrabble but great memories. Our second son was born in Delta in October, 1959. I worked an extra job running the mail and frieght run from Delta to Cedaredge. Summertime we added the run up Grand Mesa. That was before then all-weather road.

Gene
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:33 AM   #97
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Financial crisis: What you should know
Crisis sparks confusion, questions about personal finance
By Allison Linn
Senior writer
MSNBC
updated 12:28 p.m. PT, Mon., Sept. 29, 2008

YOUR MONEY
‘Is My Money Safe?’ and Other Questions to Ask
By RON LIEBER and TARA SIEGEL BERNARD
New York Times
Published: September 29, 2008
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:07 PM   #98
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Jason,
My wife and I lived in Cedaredge in the late 1950s. We enjoyed fishing Surface Creek. If we caught something we had meat for dinner, if not, we had a meatless meal. Seriously, that is how we lived. Canned everything possible, ate wild game (not because we liked it but because it was cheap if you didn't have to go too far to shoot it), hauled our own coal and wood. Hard scrabble but great memories. Our second son was born in Delta in October, 1959. I worked an extra job running the mail and frieght run from Delta to Cedaredge. Summertime we added the run up Grand Mesa. That was before then all-weather road.

Gene

Cool.. I'm a kind of history buff so I have been talking to people around here on what it use to be like,,, I still cut my own fire wood, raise 1-3 cows for meat and sell the rest, have chickens for eggs and a big vegetable garden. Do my own caning too... Not out of a need to but because I want to... But it also saves us money and the food taste better... We have 10 acres just east of the deep freeze ( the old highest apple orchard...

I still say we brought all this on, and why should the government bail people out, how bought houses they couldn't afford....

Lets by a house with interest only payments for 5 years or less, no down payment, and then it turns into a variable rate loan....

Did they think it through??? NO

It's the banks fault for doing it.... They should work with people instead of foreclosing... Get a payment they can afford.. NO Greed is what it comes down to again.....

So 5 years ago just about anyone could buy a house, so then the builders go mad building homes... Flood the market.... and then the interest only part of peoples loans end.

AND HERE WE ARE TODAY>>>>

We brought it on ourselves....
I have a fixed rate on my home... my business loan is prime minus a 1/2 percent I will have it paid off my next summer....


Not everyone can own a home no matter what certain parties seem to tell the lower and middle class.. And NO you don't deserve free health care... My wife and I worked for what we have, and so should everyone else,, Do people need help sometimes??? YES.....

Should they be on welfare for ever NO>>>> IF the government gives people money is should all be accountable like my business money is..... They care more about the money I make and what I do with it, than the money they are giving away>>>>
How does this make sense....
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