Global Geological Climate Change... Conference

[field & stream]

There are lots of opinions here .... and here is mine:

The purpose of this website is to bring people together to share and enjoy something they hold in common, a love of Airstreams.

In my opinion, this divisive discussion -- which has no relationship to Airstreaming -- has no more place on Airforums than a discussion of religion, presidential politics, sexual orientation, gun control, or abortion.

In my opinion, a Moderator should take it down.

[J. Morgan]

Because reasonable people apparently cant reasonably disagree while standing for their position?

Lol, so what, we disagree.

Happens all the time.


Brevi tempore!

[J. Morgan]

People try to separate their life from politics, but politicians will have nothing of it as they inject their politics into every facet of our lives.


Legislation has and WILL affect Airstreaming, as will a CO2 tax.


Brevi tempore!

[kscherzi]

This is quickly becoming a Ford vs Chevy, diesel vs gas, Propride vs everything else debate. To bring a tie back to Airstream let me discuss what some in charge in California are trying and doing on climate change.

For starters, for California policy makers, there's no debate as to what is causing the problem, it's man. There's a vision for change in the state. First off transportation is a major contributor so the first step is to impose a carbon offset fee. This is implemented and has increased the price of fuels somewhat. Revenues collected are used to implement projects that reduce man made greenhouse gas. So far that's mostly for high speed rail from SF to LA. The effect for now on us Airstream owners is a hit to the pocket book. Other states have or will soon be following this model.

Ultimately the intent is to impose an additional road use fee significant enough to encourage a mode shift (transit, bike, ped). A phrase I hear a lot is "induced demand". By virtue of its existence a road creates demand, be it for travel, housing, or whatever. And because vehicles emit carbon the road is especially bad. Since an Airstream is a large heavy object our pocketbooks will become especially affected.

Finally I've also heard talk of limiting the interstates to truck (18 wheeler ) routes. Passenger travel on rail, bike or by walking. Not sure what this does to Airstream travel. I work in government, and with policy folks in the administration and their advocates. This stuff is real. California for now, but the ideas are rapidly being picked up in other states.

The lowdown is suburban or rural living becomes progressively unaffordable and unrealistic. Already the state is charging special fire fees for rural residents. Urban residents are not charged this fee. The advocates truely belive these "green spaces" belong to the plants and animals and people should not be there.

Whether you believe in climate change or not the issue is being used to cause incremental and significant change to how we live and move about.

[xrvr]

To all climate change people., I have a suggestion. Read as much of the studies you can, not an interpretation of them by opinionated people and you will see how the data is misused. Every scientist that I have heard speak that has bothered to research the data themselves, has come to the conclusion that the info is being misinterpreted. I'm not talking about those that did the studies, I'm talking about scientists that reread the studies and the conclusions. Every one comes to the same conclusion. The data us being misinterpreted intentionally for political and economic reasons. The next time you here a proponent if climate change talk listen carefully and you will here same studies regurgitated over and over, using the same incorrect results from the same organizations. Very few go back to the actual research to come to their own conclusions. Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

[Jaxon]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Because reasonable people apparently cant reasonably disagree while standing for their position?

Lol, so what, we disagree.

Happens all the time.


Brevi tempore!

No, because this isn’t what the Airforums are about. There are plenty of other partisan forums where one can expound their political brilliance and wit and intimate understanding of all things pertinent...

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by field & stream

In my opinion, this divisive discussion -- which has no relationship to Airstreaming

Which is why it's in the "Off Topic" section of the Forums.

[J. Morgan]

Like I stated earlier, the theory is ENTIRELY based on models. The hard science that a rational person would assume is in place IS NOT THERE.

Study for yourself and see for yourself.

I approached this subject several years ago with an open mind, the foundation that should be there is not, and those who push the theory have been caught engaging in fraud multiple times.

If their position is strong, why resort to fraud?


Brevi tempore!

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

No, because this isn’t what the Airforums are about. There are plenty of other partisan forums where one can expound their political brilliance and wit and intimate understanding of all things pertinent...

I say the issue has the very real potential of affecting Airstreaming in a very real way.

Am I wrong?


Brevi tempore!

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Like I stated earlier, the theory is ENTIRELY based on models. The hard science that a rational person would assume is in place IS NOT THERE.

The models used by Corps of Engineers for project planning are based on hard science. But we use three of them, as I previously stated, for the same reason that hurricane tracking prediction by the National Weather Service uses the average of several different models. The accuracy of a model can only be determined after the fact, and the best we can do before the fact is to use ALL of them.

But the valid engineering use of global warming and sea level rise models appears not to matter to those whose opinions are mainly shaped by news media and politicians with agendas and not by technical journals containing peer-reviewed case study documentation.

[J. Morgan]

There are a few people who mostly agree with my position on this issue that have mostly disagreed with me on other issues, and that is ok.

We are going to agree and disagree with everyone at some time about something, I think it would be way cool if we as a generation could learn to talk through such issues with dignity and a modicum of respect.

I think that such conversation is possible if we try and if we give it a chance.

Speaking as an American to Americans, I think this is something we all need, and if I were to be even more presumptuous, I think this is good even across borders.


Brevi tempore!

[Jaxon]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I say the issue has the very real potential of affecting Airstreaming in a very real way.

Am I wrong?

Lets not be disingenuous... in our lifetime, probably not but you know that.

[kscherzi]

This topic is bound to unconfortable for many Airstream owners. The energy needed to haul these large heavy trailers & vehicles for discretionary reasons means a larger carbon footprint.

Let's pretend for a moment that mankind never existed on earth, then all that coal and petroleum man did burn would never have been burned. Surely those emissions add to whatever natural climate change is happening.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Let's pretend for a moment that mankind never existed on earth, then all that coal and petroleum man did burn would never have been burned. Surely those emissions add to whatever natural climate change is happening.

If you look at all causes of global warming, volcanoes probably head the list, not only because they vent a number of greenhouse gases and ozone-depleting gases, but also because they vent heat directly into the atmosphere from the earth's molten mantle.

[J. Morgan]

In some way is probably true, but the link between warming and CO2 in trace amounts has not been made.

I find the lack of proof of the root of the theory highly suspect.

If trace CO2 has this power to warm, where is the practical and repeatable proof?


Brevi tempore!

[J. Morgan]

On the timeline?

It is certainly demonstrated that coal is being heavily impacted right now in absence of new legislation, certainly a law or treaty might be passed where we Airstreamers might feel the sting of a carbon tax in a year or two.

I don't see this as far fetched at all in this day and age.

It might be argued that Americans are not in favor of a new carbon tax, and so therefore the politicians will not pass such a law or treaty, but then we have examples of politicians doing just the opposite of what the electorate wants and they get rich whether they are reelected or not.

Brevi tempore!

[kscherzi]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

If you look at all causes of global warming, volcanoes probably head the list, not only because they vent a number of greenhouse gases and ozone-depleting gases, but also because they vent heat directly into the atmosphere from the earth's molten mantle.

Mankind doesn't control volcano's. Man does burn petroleum releasing carbon that would otherwise never happen. The ideal notion is for mankind to exist on earth without creating an impact, same as if mankind did not exist.

Another significant emitter of greenhouse gas are cattle and other animals bred in high numbers for consumption by mankind. A good person sensitive to the needs to reduce greenhouse gas emissions will become a vegetarian.

I thought about this as I was towing my Airstream past Harris Ranch today alongside I5 in California. Literally thousands of cattle are penned there a small space prior to slaughter. Always smelly.

[J. Morgan]

If fossil fuels are fossil fuels, where did the carbon that we release from it originate?

And even beyond this, if fossil fuel is fossil fuel, what is it but stored solar energy?

What if up until the industrial evolution the earth had been starving for CO2?

What if this release of CO2 has allowed millions or billions to be fed today through higher plant yield?

In fact, what if I state with utmost confidence that billions alive today owe their very existence to this form of cheap energy?

What if curtailing the use of fossil fuels meant that people would die, but not a hundred or two hundred years from now, but in the next decade while first world governments collect their taxes?



Brevi tempore!

[PaulnGina]

Save the trees, save the earth, save the seas, save the dolphins, save the sea turtles, save the ta ta's, save the babies in the womb ( well..... not so much THAT one....).

How about post-birth abortions? Now THAT would reduce carbon footprints!

I drove past my neighbor's pasture today admiring the beautiful cattle he has, and imagining just how good that grass-fed ribeye is going to taste once it comes off of the charcoal-fired grill.

I say it's time for the human-caused-climate-change worshippers to put your money where your beliefs are and park your RV's. More room in the parks and on the roads for the rest of us.


PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

[J. Morgan]

It is true that my Tahoe uses near twice as much gas while towing my Airstream at interstate speeds. ....


Brevi tempore!