Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-28-2015, 10:10 PM   #43
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
Global Geological Climate Change... Conference

People try to separate their life from politics, but politicians will have nothing of it as they inject their politics into every facet of our lives.


Legislation has and WILL affect Airstreaming, as will a CO2 tax.


Brevi tempore!
__________________

__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is online now  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:13 PM   #44
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,136
Images: 24
This is quickly becoming a Ford vs Chevy, diesel vs gas, Propride vs everything else debate. To bring a tie back to Airstream let me discuss what some in charge in California are trying and doing on climate change.

For starters, for California policy makers, there's no debate as to what is causing the problem, it's man. There's a vision for change in the state. First off transportation is a major contributor so the first step is to impose a carbon offset fee. This is implemented and has increased the price of fuels somewhat. Revenues collected are used to implement projects that reduce man made greenhouse gas. So far that's mostly for high speed rail from SF to LA. The effect for now on us Airstream owners is a hit to the pocket book. Other states have or will soon be following this model.

Ultimately the intent is to impose an additional road use fee significant enough to encourage a mode shift (transit, bike, ped). A phrase I hear a lot is "induced demand". By virtue of its existence a road creates demand, be it for travel, housing, or whatever. And because vehicles emit carbon the road is especially bad. Since an Airstream is a large heavy object our pocketbooks will become especially affected.

Finally I've also heard talk of limiting the interstates to truck (18 wheeler ) routes. Passenger travel on rail, bike or by walking. Not sure what this does to Airstream travel. I work in government, and with policy folks in the administration and their advocates. This stuff is real. California for now, but the ideas are rapidly being picked up in other states.

The lowdown is suburban or rural living becomes progressively unaffordable and unrealistic. Already the state is charging special fire fees for rural residents. Urban residents are not charged this fee. The advocates truely belive these "green spaces" belong to the plants and animals and people should not be there.

Whether you believe in climate change or not the issue is being used to cause incremental and significant change to how we live and move about.
__________________

__________________
kscherzi is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:27 PM   #45
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Nowhere , Somewhere
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,417
Blog Entries: 2
To all climate change people., I have a suggestion. Read as much of the studies you can, not an interpretation of them by opinionated people and you will see how the data is misused. Every scientist that I have heard speak that has bothered to research the data themselves, has come to the conclusion that the info is being misinterpreted. I'm not talking about those that did the studies, I'm talking about scientists that reread the studies and the conclusions. Every one comes to the same conclusion. The data us being misinterpreted intentionally for political and economic reasons. The next time you here a proponent if climate change talk listen carefully and you will here same studies regurgitated over and over, using the same incorrect results from the same organizations. Very few go back to the actual research to come to their own conclusions. Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.
__________________
avionstream is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:29 PM   #46
E Pluribus Aluminus
 
Jaxon's Avatar
 
2008 34' Classic S/O
1967 22' Safari
2005 30' Classic
Rockport , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,214
Images: 10
Send a message via AIM to Jaxon Send a message via Yahoo to Jaxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
Because reasonable people apparently cant reasonably disagree while standing for their position?

Lol, so what, we disagree.

Happens all the time.


Brevi tempore!
No, because this isnít what the Airforums are about. There are plenty of other partisan forums where one can expound their political brilliance and wit and intimate understanding of all things pertinent...
__________________
Bill & Kim
WBCCI 7005 * AIR 9218
The trouble with trouble is it always starts out as fun...
Jaxon is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:33 PM   #47
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
In my opinion, this divisive discussion -- which has no relationship to Airstreaming
Which is why it's in the "Off Topic" section of the Forums.
__________________
WBCCI #1105
TAC LA-4

My Google-Fu is strong today.
Protagonist is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:34 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
Like I stated earlier, the theory is ENTIRELY based on models. The hard science that a rational person would assume is in place IS NOT THERE.

Study for yourself and see for yourself.

I approached this subject several years ago with an open mind, the foundation that should be there is not, and those who push the theory have been caught engaging in fraud multiple times.

If their position is strong, why resort to fraud?


Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is online now  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:37 PM   #49
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon View Post
No, because this isnít what the Airforums are about. There are plenty of other partisan forums where one can expound their political brilliance and wit and intimate understanding of all things pertinent...

I say the issue has the very real potential of affecting Airstreaming in a very real way.

Am I wrong?


Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is online now  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:43 PM   #50
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
Like I stated earlier, the theory is ENTIRELY based on models. The hard science that a rational person would assume is in place IS NOT THERE.
The models used by Corps of Engineers for project planning are based on hard science. But we use three of them, as I previously stated, for the same reason that hurricane tracking prediction by the National Weather Service uses the average of several different models. The accuracy of a model can only be determined after the fact, and the best we can do before the fact is to use ALL of them.

But the valid engineering use of global warming and sea level rise models appears not to matter to those whose opinions are mainly shaped by news media and politicians with agendas and not by technical journals containing peer-reviewed case study documentation.
__________________
WBCCI #1105
TAC LA-4

My Google-Fu is strong today.
Protagonist is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:46 PM   #51
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
There are a few people who mostly agree with my position on this issue that have mostly disagreed with me on other issues, and that is ok.

We are going to agree and disagree with everyone at some time about something, I think it would be way cool if we as a generation could learn to talk through such issues with dignity and a modicum of respect.

I think that such conversation is possible if we try and if we give it a chance.

Speaking as an American to Americans, I think this is something we all need, and if I were to be even more presumptuous, I think this is good even across borders.


Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is online now  
Old 11-28-2015, 10:57 PM   #52
E Pluribus Aluminus
 
Jaxon's Avatar
 
2008 34' Classic S/O
1967 22' Safari
2005 30' Classic
Rockport , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,214
Images: 10
Send a message via AIM to Jaxon Send a message via Yahoo to Jaxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
I say the issue has the very real potential of affecting Airstreaming in a very real way.

Am I wrong?
Lets not be disingenuous... in our lifetime, probably not but you know that.
__________________
Bill & Kim
WBCCI 7005 * AIR 9218
The trouble with trouble is it always starts out as fun...
Jaxon is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:02 PM   #53
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,136
Images: 24
This topic is bound to unconfortable for many Airstream owners. The energy needed to haul these large heavy trailers & vehicles for discretionary reasons means a larger carbon footprint.

Let's pretend for a moment that mankind never existed on earth, then all that coal and petroleum man did burn would never have been burned. Surely those emissions add to whatever natural climate change is happening.
__________________
kscherzi is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:09 PM   #54
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
Let's pretend for a moment that mankind never existed on earth, then all that coal and petroleum man did burn would never have been burned. Surely those emissions add to whatever natural climate change is happening.
If you look at all causes of global warming, volcanoes probably head the list, not only because they vent a number of greenhouse gases and ozone-depleting gases, but also because they vent heat directly into the atmosphere from the earth's molten mantle.
__________________
WBCCI #1105
TAC LA-4

My Google-Fu is strong today.
Protagonist is offline  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:10 PM   #55
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
In some way is probably true, but the link between warming and CO2 in trace amounts has not been made.

I find the lack of proof of the root of the theory highly suspect.

If trace CO2 has this power to warm, where is the practical and repeatable proof?


Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is online now  
Old 11-28-2015, 11:13 PM   #56
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,042
Images: 11
Global Geological Climate Change... Conference

On the timeline?

It is certainly demonstrated that coal is being heavily impacted right now in absence of new legislation, certainly a law or treaty might be passed where we Airstreamers might feel the sting of a carbon tax in a year or two.

I don't see this as far fetched at all in this day and age.

It might be argued that Americans are not in favor of a new carbon tax, and so therefore the politicians will not pass such a law or treaty, but then we have examples of politicians doing just the opposite of what the electorate wants and they get rich whether they are reelected or not.

Brevi tempore!
__________________

__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is online now  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Archeological, Geological, Historical and Public Sites- ABUSE Ray Eklund Off Topic Forum 12 05-06-2015 12:37 PM
West Geological Rockdocking Books for Travel Ray Eklund Boondocking 5 09-26-2009 06:47 PM
Desert Climate Meehan Full-Timing 9 05-25-2009 04:05 AM
Are there warm climate Airstream Parks on the East coast who sell lots chazols Our Community 11 08-17-2004 07:04 PM
conference room whistler Our Community 0 02-17-2004 07:57 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.