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Old 09-05-2005, 09:43 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by 85MH325
No one's disputing the election itself. The issue is the unmitigated arrogance of the Republican leadership in declaring a "people's mandate" for it's platform with a slim 2% margin in most places. The good President's popular support is slipping. His approval ratings had slipped to 40% and that was a couple of weeks ago... and that would indicated that even 12% of those who supported him in the election don't think he's doing the job they think he should be.

And, regarding the civil unrest, I think I told you to look toward the end of his seventh year in office... we're not there yet... and I sincerely hope I'm wrong... but the systematic dismantling of support systems for our less fortunate citizens is beginning to be a major societal stressor, especially in the rural areas... I haven't spent a great deal of time in the cities, but time will tell...

Rog
Boy you Democrats want to both ways...I mean the first election, you all said it wasn't a legit election cause he didn't win the popluar vote, and then the second time around, he gets a bit over 3 million more votes than the Democrat, and the Democrats are still seem unhappy. I would call it a mandate...I mean he won the first election, won the second election by even more than the first and more importantly he won the popular vote too. If he didn't win the popular vote the second time around, I'd say sure, you gotta point, but he did, so I don't think you do.

As for social unrest, it's just the boggie man inside of each Democrat that is filled with big brother and conspiracy theories abound.....with modern pharmacology, no one need suffer these day terrors of delusions Rog.

Hey just tried to take the poll on the banner...want to talk about slanted...every time they ask a specific question about Bush, the first choice is disapprove. The others that are not Bush specific have approve first. I quit the survey.
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:38 PM   #478
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What is amusing about the right wingers is the incessant need to bring up President Clinton whenever something is posted in regard to Bush. They love to talk about this conspiracy theory crap, yet they are were the same ones that were spreading the theories about the Oklahoma City bombing being done by the Clinton's to protect Hilary because of supposed files from Whitewater. This was just one of many that were constantly being circulated during the Clinton years.

The fact is Bill Clinton is not president nor has he been for five years now. The references to Clinton are pretty much irrelevant. This story line about George being a good leader and a straight shooter is crap. He did a piss poor job as Governor of Texas and in MY opinion he is doing a sorry job as president. Had he not spread lies about the previous governor he might not have even won the election. His lies about Harkin Oil seemed to have fallen through the cracks. Nobody seems to be bothered by the fact that the number of people living in poverty has been rising by about two percent per year for the last four years, yet the number of billionaires has risen. One of the previous posters brought up the fact that part of the problem in New Orleans was the fact that the budget cuts in 2003 took money from the Corp of Engineers projects, one being the levies, and shifted it to pay for Iraq. Iraq, yet another lie concerning the WMDs that were a threat to America.

All the excuses in the world can be made about personal responsibility and states obligations. Yes people should have left when they had the chance and yes the state and local authorities could have done more. How much more is debatable seeing as most of the states are now operating in red ink.
The fact is that FEMA is responsible for acting on national disaters. This fact puts the problem in George's lap. We pay taxes to fund FEMA so anyone affected by a natural disaster has a right to expect help on the federal level.

Oh well - that's enough on my part, after writing this I'd rather think about the good time we all had at the rally this weekend, Republicans and Democrats basking in the shine of aluminum.
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:52 PM   #479
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Wow '62, I'm having a tough time figuring out how you really feel.

BTW, I'd like to see something solid to the claims that the ACE money went to Iraq. You have anything to back that up or were you just floating that? Not trying to push buttons, just curious, would really like to know if it's true or not.

Second issue, is that even though FEMA is under George's umbrella, it's my understanding that the gov of the state has to request it and has to allow the feds to pick up the authority of the chain of command...and please correct me if I'm wrong, this happend when in LA.? The way I understood it the gov of Lousiana did not give the authority and hence it was her calling the shots. I might be wrong here, but that's what I heard on CNN this afternoon. Sounds like the White House sent a letter for her to sign giving the feds control and she gave them a polite "up yours" letter back several days ago.
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Old 09-05-2005, 11:04 PM   #480
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Paul, you are entitled to your opinion, even if I do disagree with it strenuously.
You see, I have had the privilege to compare eye to eye what Bush has said to me personally to the facts on various subjects, and what he says he will do to the reality of what he has actually done in several situations dating back to the time he was running for Governor against Ma ("Poor George, he cain't hep it") Richards.
It would appear that your legitimate disagrement with Bush is the direction that Bush shoots and the directions he leads. My personal experience with Bush is that he certainly does lead, and he does shoot straight with you doing what he says he will do.
Obviously, your mileage differs.
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Old 09-05-2005, 11:51 PM   #481
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Lets call it a day.

Hi all

It's time.

We need to all agree to disagree on these matters.
Lets close this thread and get back to the root of this forum,
"Airstream Trailers".
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:01 AM   #482
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Gary, this is in the off topic section, thus an allowable topic provided civility is kept. Otherwise, moderators might delete posts.
Perhaps, unsubscribe to this thread would be a viable option, and a smile will return to your face.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:05 AM   #483
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I agree with dscluchfc. Gary, this thread is a very civil adult conversation and as such, I'd vote that it stay open. There are many other threads to participate in if this one is not to your liking. This is an off topic discussion in the off topic forum.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:22 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Second issue, is that even though FEMA is under George's umbrella, it's my understanding that the gov of the state has to request it and has to allow the feds to pick up the authority of the chain of command...and please correct me if I'm wrong, this happend when in LA.? The way I understood it the gov of Lousiana did not give the authority and hence it was her calling the shots. I might be wrong here, but that's what I heard on CNN this afternoon. Sounds like the White House sent a letter for her to sign giving the feds control and she gave them a polite "up yours" letter back several days ago.
When? She signed the Declaration of Emergency on Friday, August 26, 2005. It is available on the Louisiana State Website.

And finally, according to the National Response Plan created by the Bush Administration in December of 2004, Local and State authorities do not have to ask for help. There is a provision in the plan for FEMA to take a proactive stance. Read page 43 of the NRP ... the section is titled, "Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events".

Read the plan for yourself. You can download it at ...
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlib...RPbaseplan.pdf

The Washington Post ran an article on 9/4 which they reported, sourcing an unidentified "senior Bush official", that Blanco still hadn't gotten around to declaring a state of emergency. The Post ... after checking the facts ... and realizing they got burned ... printed a retraction on 9/5.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:25 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Porky Pig
When? She signed the Declaration of Emergency on Friday, August 26, 2005. It is available on the Louisiana State Website.

And finally, according to the National Response Plan created by the Bush Administration in December of 2004, Local and State authorities do not have to ask for help. There is a provision in the plan for FEMA to take a proactive stance. Read page 43 of the NRP ... the section is titled, "Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events".

Read the plan for yourself. You can download it at ...
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlib...RPbaseplan.pdf

The Washington Post ran an article on 9/4 which they reported, sourcing an unidentified "senior Bush official", that Blanco still hadn't gotten around to declaring a state of emergency. The Post ... after checking the facts ... and realizing they got burned ... printed a retraction on 9/5.
All I know Pork is what was on CNN this afternoon. They said quite clearly that she had not signed the document over that gave contol of the operation to the feds. True, false or otherwise, I don't know, but that's what our media put out today. Your fact only says that help was requested and that FEMA is obligated to help...it says nothing of the feds having the authority to call the shots...so the CNN report *could* have some truth to it.

Here is an cut from your link:

"The PFO does not direct or replace the incident
command structure established at the incident,nor
does the PFO have directive authority over the SFLEO,
FCO,or other Federal and State officials."
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:45 AM   #486
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In fact, the more I read the roles in your link Pork, it clearly appears to me to set parameters for what the feds can do and what the locals do. This was a good read and keeps getting better each page I read. There really could be some truth to the CNN report, but I could be wrong.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:45 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
All I know Pork is what was on CNN this afternoon. They said quite clearly that she had not signed the document over that gave contol of the operation to the feds. True, false or otherwise, I don't know, but that's what our media put out today.
Stop watching CNN ... they stink as bad as Fox.

Read the document starting at page 43 ...

This is on page 44 ...

■ Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
(my emphasis)
■ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
■ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
■ State and local governments are encouraged to
conduct collaborative planning with the Federal
Government as a part of “steady-state” preparedness
for catastrophic incidents.

Local and State governments do not need to sign some document while the Feds sit on their hands.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:49 AM   #488
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Not true Pork. What you posted only seems to cover certain aspects, it does not appear to be a blanket statement giving feds full control within a state's borders. What you cut and posted is being done, how fast it's being done is a whole 'nuther conversation, but reading what you posted, I can see that is and has happened.

There has been no mention from the states or the feds that they have taken the suspended option as far as I know. From you cut, it says that it "may" be, it does not say it must be.

I find CNN biased like any other news source. However I am sure they would not float something like this without doing their homework, at least I hope.

Let's assume that there is some truth to the CNN report for a minute, either way, the finger pointing is going to go on for years (as will the recovery). It's gonna take an independ comm to get to the bottom of it since the states and the feds clearly are not about to take any heat for it. Personally I think there were problems on both sides, but again, the speed question is a whole 'nuther conversation. What really gets me is the race card issues being brought up which I think are way false.
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Old 09-06-2005, 01:17 AM   #489
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I find CNN biased like any other news source. However I am sure they would not float something like this without doing their homework, at least I hope.
Why? That's what the Washingtron Post did ... thus the retraction.

So you believe the CNN claim that the reason the Federal response was slow in coming was because of procedural niceties ... the Governor didn't sign a form? Sounds like an HMO nightmare!

In addition to Governor Blanco, President Bush also signed a State of Emergency on August 27th ... and gave FEMA plenary powers to "identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."

Let's admit it ... FEMA "under performed". All you had to do was watch TV for several days to figure that out.

This is my last post on this thread ... you can have the last word. Best wishes.
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Old 09-06-2005, 02:00 AM   #490
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Wow '62, I'm having a tough time figuring out how you really feel.


That really turned over the old laugh box
Thanx...I got a real howl outta that.
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