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Old 09-02-2005, 10:52 PM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoe stream
Nobody is being converted in this thread. No, we don't need these frustrations in Airstream Forums. A lot has been said. F*** it (the real 'nasty'). Close it! Be done with it!! Sorry, it had to be said.

No one is looking for "converts"
Who is this "we"?
It had to be said by....you?

You're cordially invited to visit any one of the several hundred OTHER
conversations taking place on various other topics.
I dont think anyone is twisting your arm to keep coming back here
torturing yourself to death.
It looks like some of us are enjoying hearing other peoples views and debating issues and viewpoints.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:54 PM   #436
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It's easy enough for anyone to avoid reading a thread titled 'GW Bush.' Personally, I enjoy reading the different perspectives on how this disaster is being handled. I'm finding a more balanced look at this here than i do at CNN and Fox News.

--Dave

me too....especially CNN
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:25 PM   #437
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in that this is a GW Bush discussion - Katrina and the Bush Admin's lack of action to help the poor black of the South will prove to be the single Waterloo event that will wrestle away control of the House and Senate from the Right.

From what I read on Right Wing blogs is that the Right is freaking out over Bush's bungling of this disaster.

Regarding the relevence of this Bush thread at and Airstream Forum...I think what is going on is very relevent to Airstreaming - considering my trialer will be parked for the weekend becuase gas is now $4.00 a glallon and my Armada is a thirsty sucker when pulling my 34 foot - 9,000 pound trailer. I could suffer through $50 tank fill-ups without batting an eye, but now with a fill up cresting the $100 mark that 300 mile trip requires more thought. I feel GW is having a direct effect on my ability to enjoy my Airstream to the fullest.

I wouldn't question the President so much regarding fuel prices if we didn't know his business partners in the Carlisle Group were the Saud family themselves. What company is the most profitable in the World today????
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Exxon.

--dave
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:12 AM   #438
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That's just plain nuts....I mean I'm in the same boat as everyone else with our Airstream in dry dock due to the high gas prices, but if you really think this is a GW issue, you had better do a bit more research. The whole planet is getting hit hard. No one man, regardless of contacts could drive prices up around the world to this level. If you think we have it bad here, go see what Europe is paying, it'll make you think we're back a 1.50 a gallon.

I've heard the same old song and dance before about the dems taking back the house, senate and white house....and you know, you may be right if the dems can stop attacking the Repbulicans and actually do something constructive (and pay for it)....the odds are though that it won't happen in time and we will be governed by either another Republican President or have House/Senate majority or both. Don't discount how badly the dems position has been these past 5-6 years....and there is no end in sight as with Dean is out there screaming and pushing political hot buttons....at some point soon, his CDL (carrer disapation light) will start to blink, if it hasn't already due to the dems finally realizing theirs has been going off regualrly with him where he is.......

One other thing I wanted to share about the corrupt UN was this that I saw today on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/un.....ap/index.html
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:49 AM   #439
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Has anyone else noticed?

Where's Dick Cheney?

I've been watching this horor show in New Orleans for several days now ... and listened to the President, Senators, Governors, Mayors ... police, firefighters, doctors, nurses ...

But no Vice-President. It's weird ... it's like the guy has just vanished.
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Old 09-03-2005, 01:02 AM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
That's just plain nuts....I mean I'm in the same boat as everyone else with our Airstream in dry dock due to the high gas prices, but if you really think this is a GW issue, you had better do a bit more research. The whole planet is getting hit hard. No one man, regardless of contacts could drive prices up around the world to this level. If you think we have it bad here, go see what Europe is paying, it'll make you think we're back a 1.50 a gallon.

I've heard the same old song and dance before about the dems taking back the house, senate and white house....and you know, you may be right if the dems can stop attacking the Repbulicans and actually do something constructive (and pay for it)....the odds are though that it won't happen in time and we will be governed by either another Republican President or have House/Senate majority or both. Don't discount how badly the dems position has been these past 5-6 years....and there is no end in sight as with Dean is out there screaming and pushing political hot buttons....at some point soon, his CDL (carrer disapation light) will start to blink, if it hasn't already due to the dems finally realizing theirs has been going off regualrly with him where he is.......

One other thing I wanted to share about the corrupt UN was this that I saw today on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/un.....ap/index.html

great reply!!! i'm well aware that the western european countryies that have limited home grown oil production have always paid much more for their gasoline than we have. what frustrates me about GW on the issue of oil his his complete lack of ackknowledment that it is even an issue - prior to Kartrina of course. Finally the reserves are being tapped into.

however, if you're not aware of the incredibly close ties the Bush family has to the Saud (and the bin ladens for that matter). I recommend you checking out the video at (sorry, no airstream cameos)...

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle3995.htm

i just have this weird feeling that when GW sits down at his desk in the morning that he is thinking more about his own and his cronies wallet's than he is of mine (firmly in the middle class) and the rest of the citizens of the USA. tax relief indeed. my '04 tax return check bought me my $20K airstream a few weeks back. i shouldn't be bitching about GW's policies but I see what going on both above me in the econnomic scale as well as below. it's gross on both accounts.

regarding your points on the dems - they have absolutely not been able to find a message since lewinski smoked clinton's cigar. however, i don't see them attacking the right at all. they need to do more of it and do it more effectively. as i heard tonight -- like a boxer pounding away at a cut above an opponents eye, the dems have to find that cut and just hammer away. the question is, who will wear the gloves?

all i know is I want to get back to $50 tank fill ups sooner rather than later. right now i feel like GW is amassing, however indirectly, incredible personal wealth on our backs. I just hope we find a politician who will look out more for the working middle class, a place where most of *my* airstream friends reside.
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Old 09-03-2005, 09:31 AM   #441
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I'm pretty much in agreement with nearly all your post, except the fact that GW's oil fortune. I know all about the Saudi relationships and though they do exist, I don't feel that they are the cause or have any control over the refining process which here is accounting for far more than half the problems the world sees today. It's my understanding of the situation that it's not raw feedstocks that are the problem; it's getting the stuff processed. A few examples of other items would be steel and wood. We had plenty, but being a capitalist society, most of that went abroad for more $$ than we would pay...so when you go to Home Depot or your favorite home improvement store, you see plywood and other building items went significantly up.

My point to that story is that gasoline, diesel, jet fuel are the same as any supply and demand situation. Gas is now needed more in countries like China where in the past most folks walked, took trains, or rode bicycles. Now because we Americans and Europeans like to shop Target, Wal-Mart and just about any retail center and enjoy low prices on the shelves from products made in China, it's created a sudo class system in China and now folks have disposable incomes, so you see more cars, and things you and I take for granted (gas powered chain saws, lawnmowers, motorcycles) but are luxury items there. China however is but one nation, but it is one of the biggest, and with a worse record on environmental issue, equal or worse to that of Russia and by far make the lax Bush environmental issues look like a boy scout policy.

Bottom line, I too enjoy the tax breaks afforded by the Bush White House, but you know what, we started with nothing. We worked very hard to get where we are, and we did it through bleaker times than this, traversing several administrations from both sides of the aisle. If folks below want to pick themselves up, you can't expect the government to do it for you. At the same time I don't expect the Republican Party to stick to too hard to the upper class. Yes, they have gotten a few good jabs, but to be honest, Clinton didn't do much for us either (nor did many other Democrats) as his family and friends were in the upper tax brackets as are many Presidents. So the system perpetuates itself, independent of any one man IMHO.

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Old 09-03-2005, 10:42 AM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micsupply
regarding your points on the dems - they have absolutely not been able to find a message since lewinski smoked clinton's cigar. however, i don't see them attacking the right at all. they need to do more of it and do it more effectively. as i heard tonight -- like a boxer pounding away at a cut above an opponents eye, the dems have to find that cut and just hammer away. the question is, who will wear the gloves?
I have to disagree with this....

They do attack the right, but the manner in which they do it is at times best described as childish. All complaints, and how the right cannot do it correctly. The problem is that is where they stop 90% of the time. They rarely if ever offer a palatable solution to an issue, and this is stereotypical, but often there solution is to study it to death, or create a new unfunded mandate to resolve the issue. Then they point to what they have done, but never look at the results to see if their "fix" was really a fix. I know that is a set of VERY broad strokes, but until they start doing things differently on a regular basis they are going to continue to be trounced at the polls.

I will admit that GW's speaking style and communications methods often make me cringe. Ronald Reagan set the bar so high it will be a while before we have another leader that can communicate to the American people the way he did. But being a mediocre public speaker is not a symbol of intelligence level, or ability.

I have also noticed that Cheny is MIA, I wonder why??
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Old 09-03-2005, 11:01 AM   #443
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I have to disagree with this....

They do attack the right, but the manner in which they do it is at times best described as childish. All complaints, and how the right cannot do it correctly. The problem is that is where they stop 90% of the time. They rarely if ever offer a palatable solution to an issue, and this is stereotypical, but often there solution is to study it to death, or create a new unfunded mandate to resolve the issue. Then they point to what they have done, but never look at the results to see if their "fix" was really a fix. I know that is a set of VERY broad strokes, but until they start doing things differently on a regular basis they are going to continue to be trounced at the polls.

I will admit that GW's speaking style and communications methods often make me cringe. Ronald Reagan set the bar so high it will be a while before we have another leader that can communicate to the American people the way he did. But being a mediocre public speaker is not a symbol of intelligence level, or ability.

I have also noticed that Cheny is MIA, I wonder why??

Cheney is in a secure place calling the shots I'm sure. When I direct my comments to Bush, I don't mean GW directly as I don't think he has the capacity to be calling many of the shots in DC. My comments are directed more towards his administration and the neo-Cons he has surrounded himself with.

The Dems and Kerry had a message in the last election - fiscal responsibility, which carried with it a tax hike. I don't know of any politician who has ever won over the American people with the promise of raising taxes if elected.

It's a strange juxitiposition in Federal Gov't these days - the extreme right with out of control spending like we've never seen in our Nations history, and the left calling for more responsible spending. I find it puzzling. It's always been the other way around, except for the revenue surplus and balanced budget we saw in the late '90's.
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Old 09-03-2005, 02:18 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micsupply
Cheney is in a secure place calling the shots I'm sure. When I direct my comments to Bush, I don't mean GW directly as I don't think he has the capacity to be calling many of the shots in DC. My comments are directed more towards his administration and the neo-Cons he has surrounded himself with.

The Dems and Kerry had a message in the last election - fiscal responsibility, which carried with it a tax hike. I don't know of any politician who has ever won over the American people with the promise of raising taxes if elected.

It's a strange juxitiposition in Federal Gov't these days - the extreme right with out of control spending like we've never seen in our Nations history, and the left calling for more responsible spending. I find it puzzling. It's always been the other way around, except for the revenue surplus and balanced budget we saw in the late '90's.
First, just cause the guy can't articulate his speech very well (and I cringe too when I hear him), not many people can publicly speak very well, especially when under the gun.....don't confuse that with not being able to take the appropriate actions.

Second, Kerry's message was nothing but smoke and mirrors....every single time you hear him say "Ieeeeee have a plaaaaaan", he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. First for peace, love and prosperity, while tucking tail between his (our) legs and running for cover, allowing the corrupt UN to dictate our foreign policy and not having ANY way to pay for what he was proposing, though I never really seem to actually hear him show how he'd pay for his plans....I do remember him B.Sing the American public about the not owning an SUV cause he was the environmental candidate, until we all found out he owned several gas hogs...oh, but wait, those were driven by his family, not him....and his wife’s company, exporting as many Heinz jobs to Mexico and abroad, while John was saying he was going to bring jobs back.

Third, the prosperity of the 90s, though measurable, was a total farce. Why? Well for starters, Clinton nearly mothballed our Military since he saw no need for it in a post cold war world (a narrow vision I would add). Outside of Bosnia, he had NO major event that caused him to spend money. Of all the spats he got into, he pulled out and made us look like a bunch of cowards to the world, and I'm not talking simply about Monica, I'm referring to Somalia, I'm referring to a missile here, a missile there. So then here comes George and he knows that the military was cut too far as most Americans already knew. Then, terrorism veers it's ugly head, Saddam wants to keep playing cat and mouse, people in the UN are writing checks their behinds can't cash (resolution after resolution, none with any teeth), later find out some of the UN folks are profiting from oil for food, found French missile parts in Iraq (when there should have been none).

Add to the fact that every decade we have a recession for as far back as I can remember. Clinton got in at the tail end of the last one, and rode the decade like a champ taking credit for all the money he saved us...why didn't we get any back? That's a good question. But then GW gets into office right at the beginning of the next recession (as the economy is cyclical), then take a major hit and the economy goes even further down hill.

In closing, I can't for the life of me see how Gore (the inventor of the Internet) or Kerry (the vacillating fool) could have done any better, moreover the majority of Americans agreed. First time around when Gore lost, the Democrats said, yea, he won, but he didn't get the popular vote (which by the way isn't required to win). Then, next time around, he not only gets the college, but also the popular vote. Though I fully understand it was only by a few percentage points as our Democratic friends will remind us regularly, it still means two things....Kerry did a poor job of trying to do as I say and not as I do and that the country by two measures voted our current commander in chief in not once, but twice.

Oh and by the way, Reagan was a total spendthrift, and at the time it wasn't very popular either, but he is regarded (as he should be) as one of the best leaders we've had in the past 30 years. In the end, the spending still put a nice chunk down for your Airstream...which I see no complaints about that.
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Old 09-03-2005, 03:33 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
First, just cause the guy can't articulate his speech very well (and I cringe too when I hear him), not many people can publicly speak very well, especially when under the gun.....don't confuse that with not being able to take the appropriate actions.

Second, Kerry's message was nothing but smoke and mirrors....every single time you hear him say "Ieeeeee have a plaaaaaan", he was talking out of both sides of his mouth. First for peace, love and prosperity, while tucking tail between his (our) legs and running for cover, allowing the corrupt UN to dictate our foreign policy and not having ANY way to pay for what he was proposing, though I never really seem to actually hear him show how he'd pay for his plans....I do remember him B.Sing the American public about the not owning an SUV cause he was the environmental candidate, until we all found out he owned several gas hogs...oh, but wait, those were driven by his family, not him....and his wife’s company, exporting as many Heinz jobs to Mexico and abroad, while John was saying he was going to bring jobs back.

Third, the prosperity of the 90s, though measurable, was a total farce. Why? Well for starters, Clinton nearly mothballed our Military since he saw no need for it in a post cold war world (a narrow vision I would add). Outside of Bosnia, he had NO major event that caused him to spend money. Of all the spats he got into, he pulled out and made us look like a bunch of cowards to the world, and I'm not talking simply about Monica, I'm referring to Somalia, I'm referring to a missile here, a missile there. So then here comes George and he knows that the military was cut too far as most Americans already knew. Then, terrorism veers it's ugly head, Saddam wants to keep playing cat and mouse, people in the UN are writing checks their behinds can't cash (resolution after resolution, none with any teeth), later find out some of the UN folks are profiting from oil for food, found French missile parts in Iraq (when there should have been none).

Add to the fact that every decade we have a recession for as far back as I can remember. Clinton got in at the tail end of the last one, and rode the decade like a champ taking credit for all the money he saved us...why didn't we get any back? That's a good question. But then GW gets into office right at the beginning of the next recession (as the economy is cyclical), then take a major hit and the economy goes even further down hill.

In closing, I can't for the life of me see how Gore (the inventor of the Internet) or Kerry (the vacillating fool) could have done any better, moreover the majority of Americans agreed. First time around when Gore lost, the Democrats said, yea, he won, but he didn't get the popular vote (which by the way isn't required to win). Then, next time around, he not only gets the college, but also the popular vote. Though I fully understand it was only by a few percentage points as our Democratic friends will remind us regularly, it still means two things....Kerry did a poor job of trying to do as I say and not as I do and that the country by two measures voted our current commander in chief in not once, but twice.

Oh and by the way, Reagan was a total spendthrift, and at the time it wasn't very popular either, but he is regarded (as he should be) as one of the best leaders we've had in the past 30 years. In the end, the spending still put a nice chunk down for your Airstream...which I see no complaints about that.
This was a really good post and an interesting read...I agree with it.
I'll also add a footnote with kind permission of the author.......

Given a choice between a slick, polished b*****d with a perfect haircut, a manicure, hollywood looks, and a silver eloquent tongue that speaks from both sides of his neck....
....or a hard-nosed businessman who takes care of his family, rolls up his sleeves and brawls, has a proven track record of success, but gets tongue twisted in public....I'd take the latter anyday.

I dont need anyone to make me "feel good", be my friend, or "feel my pain"
As long as he "shows up".. Im good with that. Thats all it takes.

It doesnt hurt either that W gives names to reporters like "stretch" or "brownie".....lol
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:10 AM   #446
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Coming from a long line of Democrats in MA I can tell you this...

Out of the 4.1 million registered voters in MA 1.7mil voted for Kerry, 1mil for Bush. Kerry is NOT highly regarded in his home state and that winning vote for Kerry is widely believed to be a vote that if he were elected it would be good for Massachusetts.

If he can't drum up an overwhelming vote from his own home state, the country should be very alarmed. Kerry was never the answer -- he wasn't even a good last bet. Whatever message he tried to portray, he was simply lying. The voters in MA knew this as did just about every democrat from MA that I ever talked to.

Sometimes elections boil down to my party period. The DNC failed when Kerry went from pro-war to anti-war and they didn't set him on fire for it. All of his credibility went down the tubes right there on that single issue. All the other flip-flops he was involved in were very well documented (with video to back it up) in one of the RNC propoganda flicks. It was pretty amazing to watch him flip and flop and flip and flop.

Our current President has convictions -- Kerry merely played to the polls no matter what his opinion really was. What was that song? Dust in the wind...

_
__
all right. I've tried to stay out of this, but all of what you've said here is just dead wrong. you haven't talked to very many Democrats from MA, if these are your conclusions.

here is an *actual* fact:
Kerry got 62% of the vote in MA. that is "overwhelming" by any measure, at least in terms of elections. In contrast, W only managed to squeak out 61% of the vote in his home state. should we be alarmed???

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Old 09-04-2005, 08:37 AM   #447
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Just substitute a horse for the guy getting beat. You get the idea.

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Old 09-04-2005, 08:58 AM   #448
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It is no wonder to me that this thread keeps riseing to the top of the forum list.
There is so much hot air being expressed here, I have to put on my gas mask just to open it up.
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