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Old 01-25-2005, 04:51 PM   #239
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Would anyone explain what Bush means by "compassionate conservativism? thanks silver

suz,

thats easy, I am a compassionate conservative. always have been, always will be. even before W was elected.

i believe that people should always be given the benefit of the doubt first, no matter what race, creed, or any other "lifestyle choice".

i believe people should be given a hand up not a hand out. But, there should always be a safety net for orphans and widows. they deserve it.

take for example: i am the only conservitive on my block, probably in the whole nieghborhood. (our ward voter tallies prove this, i'm one of three that voted for W out of 12,000!)

does this bother me? no.

does it make me like my nieghbors any less? no.

am i the first guy they come to for a jumpstart help with a flat tire, wiring problem, advice, borrow a tool etc.? YES!

just goes to show even us conservitives can co-exist in the minority.

that is compassionate conservitism.

just look at W's nominations for cabinet/courts have you ever seen such a diverse group in our history? nope, not even during the clintonista years!

that also is compassonate conservitism.

get the idea?

john
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Old 01-25-2005, 05:01 PM   #240
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what we have here is a "big picture" problem, and you're arguing with small-potatoes examples. whatever I can do myself, as an individual, doesn't amount to a p-hole in the snow, compared to what W (or any other prez) is capable of doing. so yeah, I'll get all in his sandbox without a bit of guilt. OTOH, I got no problem with him driving around in a 1-mpg armored limmo, OR a 747. its required for national security.

we drive much more fuel-efficient and less polluting vehicles today, not because of any choices we made as individual citizens, but because the government forced automakers to make changes. Changes that they fought tooth and nail to avoid, because it might have cost them a few short-term bucks. The clean air act...clean water act....Bad for the economy, too. (translation: bad for big-business's wallet). Thats the sort of thing a president can do. sorry, but I don't think I give up the right to criticize the current administrations environmental policy, just because I have to drive a car to get to work. OR because I own a pickup truck and a camper. (remember, its an "airstream", after all. 30% better gas mileage, yadda yadda yadda ). Nor is becoming a vegan the only valid way to support "animal rights".

by your definition, the only "ists" that exist are the rare, radical extremists. (on any given subject). We all have to act in our own best interest as individuals, at least to some extent. Its governments that can affect real change. Yeah, I have to drive a car to work, but I'd take the train, if there was one. I can't do anything about that myself; but the government can.

which reminds me: while I'm not intimately familiar with Mr. Kerry's personal transportation choices, I do know that his ex-boss, also a former Dem Presidential candidate, was well known for taking the subway to work every day.
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Old 01-25-2005, 05:20 PM   #241
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chuck and roger,

unfortunately for you guys the radical "ists" comprise the leadership of your party.

that is why the dems lose elections when exposed to the "rest" of america. on the night of the election i knew W was gonna win. despite what the move on.org exit polls were saying. that is because the gay marriage referendums in 11 states were defeated.

john kerry is an eliteist, plain and simple. that is why that map i posted about ten pages back looks the way it does.

he even stiffed the city i live in for 90,000 bucks for police protection, at his rally that was sponsered by my ibew local.

so, even though i didn't vote for him and he lost, my taxes and my union dues are gonna go up!

john
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Old 01-25-2005, 05:49 PM   #242
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Unfortunately, John you're right. However the radical "ists" control the other (dark) side as well. If both sides can find some "Centr" "ists" to begin governing on some middle ground, we'll all be much better off!

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Old 01-25-2005, 06:11 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
Unfortunately, John you're right. However the radical "ists" control the other (dark) side as well. If both sides can find some "Centr" "ists" to begin governing on some middle ground, we'll all be much better off!

Roger
Now there is something I can agree with, but I will say this, the Republicans own the executive and the legislative, so it's really up to the Reds to get it going, middle isn't as important really if you think about it right now......
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Old 01-25-2005, 08:33 PM   #244
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I have really enjoyed this thread. Like an earlier post postulated, we have many intelligent members on the forum.

In addition to ranching, I taught courses in State and Federal Government at a nearby University for 20 years. I always felt it to be inappropriate for me to try and make any of my students into liberals or conservatives on any particular issue. I always tried to give at least two sides to every issue and to teach my students that most issues have multiple sides. It was my job to get students to realize that there were various issues out there that they should develop an opinion about. Many of my students admitted that they never listened to a news program before taking my class. I also felt it was my job to enable the young people in my classes accustomed to never disagreeing with their teachers to actively argue with me and their peers in a constructive way. That is what citizenship is all about.

The most difficult task I faced was in getting my students to feel free to discuss various issues. Unfortunately, we arenít all as diplomatically skilled in debate. Many of us were taught not to discuss politics and religion. Sometimes our responses are so influenced by our deep seated emotions that we find it exceedingly difficult to discuss certain issues or entertain alternate ways of looking at things. Sometimes we are hesitant because we have faced ridicule in the past for expressing our thoughts. It is certainly safer and easier to just keep our thoughts to ourselves, but for the sake of our communities and our nation, constructive debate is essential to our getting a good understanding of the problems we face and perhaps gaining a handle on how best to address those problems. None of us individually has the definitive understanding of, and answer for, each and every problem our communities face. So I encouraged discussion and debate. It didn't matter how well a person could defend his position or what particular side of the issue the person was on. I just wanted to hear his position. Practice makes perfect. Keep on arguing. Argument is good. Hopefully, with a little practice, those of us less skilled in diplomatic argument will become better at argument and we might even begin to be more tolerant of others ideas. Perhaps we might even learn a little from those with whom we may initially disagree. My dad used to say that he should be able to admire a manís cows without having to feed them. It is the same with political discourse. We should be able to listen to another manís (or woman's) view without necessarily having to agree with him/her. We go to church on Sundays in various places of worship and then get along with each other throughout the rest of the week. We should be able to have political discourse and elections and still be friends when the discussion or election is over.
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Old 01-26-2005, 03:29 PM   #245
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GStephens thanks for your comments. You are right about self expression. We have been taught not to talk about things. We have been taught to be good citizens go to work, do as we are told, go home and do as we are told by the house boss. Only when men go to the barber shop can we speak our mind about life. Some people only talk about sports. I am glad you let us know your thoughts.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:27 PM   #246
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I think one of the most fascinating aspects of this entire discourse is its originator: Chris, AKA Canny Banjo Man, from "across the pond," as he loves to say. None of us --on this side of the pond--opened up this discussion. He did. Maybe as GStephens says above, we are too reluctant to open up talk that is challenging and potentially volatile. And look at the talk that erupted! Maybe this is one of those "Only in America" events: a forum thread that boils and bubbles, changes directions, laughs at itself, yells and harangues a little, circles back, and begins again! Thanks, Chris, for making us look at ourselves and our beliefs, prejudices, and foibles. This is entertaining, thought provoking, and All American! So, do we change our signatures to the kind of towv, faith denomination, political alignment, fuel preference. . .shucks, no! Shel Silverstein wrote a poem about how we would all look alike if God just turned off the light. I kind of like us with the lights turned off, just knowing we all love Airstreams!
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Old 01-26-2005, 08:33 PM   #247
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:33 PM   #248
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Hey the California Train Wreck yesterday was a terrorist act in America. This time it was not G.W. Bush's fault. Eleven people dead and 200 injured. The media did not report much about it. When it comes to IRAQ they spend much more time telling us.
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:48 PM   #249
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Are you shure it was a terrorist act?? They (the german news channels, plus bbc world, plus euronews and cnn europe)said it was a 25 year old man who wanted to commit suicide... He tried it twice before (with a knife and medecine) and he just got out of his jeep before the trains crashed.

So this time it really wasnīt GWB fault .
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Old 01-27-2005, 06:57 PM   #250
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The media did not report much about it? It's all that's been on for the last two days! Not a terrorist act, just a tragic accident.

Though I agree, it's not Bush's fault.
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Old 01-27-2005, 07:04 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippo
Hey the California Train Wreck yesterday was a terrorist act in America. This time it was not G.W. Bush's fault. Eleven people dead and 200 injured. The media did not report much about it. When it comes to IRAQ they spend much more time telling us.
That's just plain wrong. The wreck was caused by a nut job .. not a terrorist.

As for the media ... here in Arizona ... the wreck made page 6 ... Iraq coverage was on page 12.
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Old 01-27-2005, 07:06 PM   #252
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i have to admit, as soon as the news of the train wreck started. i thought for sure it was a terrorist attack.

relieved to find out otherwise.

either way a tragic event. i have a friend that works for metra in chicago, he tells me suicide by train is a common ocurrance there. most of the incidents are by pedestrians.

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