Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-24-2005, 10:36 PM   #197
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 71_safari
. . . Why isn't our government doing anything else in lieu of Kyoto? They aren't doing anything. . . . . . It is rather embarrasing to think that there is SO LITTLE leadership from the administration that the state governors are forming their own regional partnerships to begin to address the problem. Both West Coast and RGGI in eight of the Northeast states.
You can laugh, but $1.2 billion isn't chicken feed.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030206-2.html
__________________

__________________
markdoane is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:38 PM   #198
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
bredlo's Avatar
 
1954 22' Safari
Deerfield , Illinois
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,419
Images: 23
Send a message via AIM to bredlo
Quote:
Originally Posted by j54mark
...wouldn't it be great if this forum could distinguish itself by long, uninformed, poorly argued political postings? Just think of the oportunity to bring people together from all over the world with a common interest, and get them to divide themselves into hostile camps. I mean, there are so few forums where one can go to engage in this sort of thing, aren't there?
Point well taken. But I think part of the reason we're doing this here is... we're each others' neighbors. We've gotten to know each other over the months (or years.) While I agree with less than prolly 4% of the content on this thread, I would still be proud to park next to any one of you at the next rally. I think we've kept this clean and rather polite, yet passionate. Well... except for the part where I compared Markdoane to a little brat on the playground - a comment which I'm standing by!
__________________

__________________
Brad
bredlo is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:42 PM   #199
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by bredlo
I would still be proud to park next to any one of you at the next rally. I think we've kept this clean and rather polite, yet passionate. )
I very much agree here too.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:43 PM   #200
I love Airstreams...
Commercial Member
 
leefields's Avatar
 
1989 29' Land Yacht
Haines City , Florida
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBKP's Overlander
Well I'm sure there are some guys out in your part that have some assault riffles

yes, i can assure you that is correct.....



and the government "ain't never gonna take 'em".


no, ...this is granted in the second amendment.....


You probably have a few who insist that this govenment is illegal


yes, these are the local liberals and democrats


and has no authority to tax them.

well, ....if you read the constitution......you would find that it really, technically, doesn't........


Furthermore I know there has to be some mobile home/meth labs in you neck of the woods.

true,....i cannot argue there, ...polk county is the meth lab capital of the world....

However, that's not what I'm talking about. Let's say those other two robbery suspects haven't been caught yet. Should they just start carpet bombing the town until they found the guys.

No, .......they will be found. Because the locals will report anything out of the ordinary to the police....they would show up soon enough.

BTW, all areas have there problems. Mine too.

Yes, i would expect so.....
__________________
1953 Spartan Mansion

Ram 3500 DRW LB SuperCrew
PCS Professional Coach
AIR# 6366
leefields is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:44 PM   #201
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
You can laugh, but $1.2 billion isn't chicken feed.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030206-2.html
Thanks for that post. I didn't have the numbers myself, but I too knew they were more than the near zero amount suggested.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:51 PM   #202
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBKP's Overlander
Well I'm sure there are some guys out in your part that have some assault riffles
Just to clarify, the assault ban is over. It is legal to own assault type weapons and accessories. I do understand that there have been studies that say the old law actually did something, and others that differ from those findings. No matter how you feel it though, they are currently allowed. Personally, I don't have a problem with folks owning assault type weapons for two reasons.

1) The criminals that want to get would still get them, law or not.

2) Folks can die just as easily (innocent or otherwise) from any weapon, assault type or not.

Though I did get a big kick out of those guys in CA that had full body armor that made law enforcement freak out a few years back.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 10:58 PM   #203
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
[QUOTE=71_safari]Uh, China's economy doesn't dwarf ours yet. Not even close.

2003 GDP (in US $)
US - 10.8 Trillion
China - 1.4 Trillion

Looks like my numbers were incorrect. However, unless I read this link wrong (which is possible), for 2002 and 2001, it looks as if the numbers are actually a lot closer than advertised:

http://www.mrdowling.com/800gdppercapita.html
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 11:06 PM   #204
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Just to clarify, the assault ban is over. It is legal to own assault type weapons and accessories. I do understand that there have been studies that say the old law actually did something, and others that differ from those findings. No matter how you feel it though, they are currently allowed. Personally, I don't have a problem with folks owning assault type weapons for two reasons.

1) The criminals that want to get would still get them, law or not.

2) Folks can die just as easily (innocent or otherwise) from any weapon, assault type or not.

Though I did get a big kick out of those guys in CA that had full body armor that made law enforcement freak out a few years back.
I don't know, If I'm running away I'd rather dodge less bullets. That body armor deal was real freaky. I'd like to see that again.
__________________
TBKP's Overlander is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 11:14 PM   #205
3 Rivet Member
 
71_safari's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
West Linn , Oregon
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 195
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
You can laugh, but $1.2 billion isn't chicken feed.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030206-2.html
Well compared to $200 Bil or so on Iraq so far, it IS chicken feed. One reason we are in Iraq is the strategic importance of Middle East oil. We can always find the money for war but we can't spend the money to reduce our dependence on oil. And yes, the hydrogen initiative IS a possible direction to take - the problem is that in embracing something that might or might not prove practical 10-20 years down the road it effectively diverts attention and focus from concrete steps that can be taken NOW.

And there are many concrete steps that can be taken now to begin to address global warming without causing a lot of pain:

1) The first would be to publicly acknowledge that there is a problem and outline a direction, ie. stabilization and eventual reduction of CO2 emissions over several decades. Just that step alone would begin to open eyes and change strategic decision-making on the part of business. The fact is no company wants to invest in something voluntarily unless there is a level playing field.

2) Perhaps extend pollution trading credits for CO2 emissions like they did for NOX, so companies begin to have financial incentives to invest in necessary technology. This has worked very well in the past.

3) Another is to raise the CAFE standards and include light trucks and SUV's. We have stagnated on fuel economy while average horsepower has doubled in 20 years. The manufacturers have the technology available to make significant increases if there were an incentive. Hybrids as of yet are so small in sales as to make little impact. And yes, we all have a choice, but we also know where the marketing dollars are spent and what is emphasized in ads.

4) Raise funding for renewables research and development in the US so we regain our lead in this technology instead of forfeiting it to Japan (solar), Germany (solar, wind) and Denmark (wind).

There are many steps that can be taken, I do not know all of them, but these are a few. You know, this is an emotional one for me because I feel we are truly trading away our future, the problem is that significant. And I also believe no one would respond as rapidly and willingly as the American people, if they thought there really were a problem. They just aren't aware. It has been proven over and over that we do what needs to be done when asked. But the issue is not being made known to the people, it is being obfuscated and swept under the carpet for short-term interests and darn it - I don't think it's right.

And now I am done with it. You are all good people. Thanks for listening.

-john
__________________
Currently living in SE Asia
1971 Safari 23 (sold)
71_safari is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 11:15 PM   #206
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBKP's Overlander
I don't know, If I'm running away I'd rather dodge less bullets. That body armor deal was real freaky. I'd like to see that again.
Thing is that you're right, but with any good semi auto (keep in mind that even with the assault ban gone the only thing legal is semi-auto) be it an AK-47, Glock, Desert Eagle, Smith and Wesson, a hit is a hit. Personally, I wouldn't want to dodge or run from either. One thing from what I understand can be done with the assualt type is that although not legal, they can be converted to total auto in which case you are right on the money....would rather take my chances with a semi auto handgun chasing me down than the chain saw effect of a full auto cutting me in half.

I watch that video every so often. I think my choice of words about getting a kick out of it was a poor choice, since it really scared the tar out of me each time I saw the offenders take a direct hit and it was like the police were shooting blanks or BB guns. I think it also was a very sobering sight for law enforcement too.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 11:25 PM   #207
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
John,

I see and understand where you're coming from, but you can't compare the two. It's like saying the national freeway gets more money than food programs. They are two different situations. Oil is the main reason, I'd agree, but so was the fact that a Hitler type man was running the country and used WMDs on not only his own people, but Iran (even though I know we turned a blind eye when he did it to Iran). There are other secondary things to consider, but basically the same as the more popular '91 Gulf War.

A few thoughts:

A public ack from the admin would do nothing at all if the average folks don't embrace it. We got on a metric kick in the 80s that started from the top and it went nowhere.

The credit idea is a good one.

CAFE standards is a nice idea, but with hybrids everywhere (even from the big 3's full size truck line), it's a token gesture.

I would guess that autos make up at least 50% of all emmission in our country. That might not be totally on the mark, but let's say it's in the ballpark. Hybrids are only gonna take us so far. If cars were made out of composites, they'd weigh less, get better MPG, but be out of reach for the average person to afford. So although you may be right about Hydrogen, my gut tells me it's out best hope...the best of both worlds...power, performance and envirofriendly.

I enjoy your posts, they really make me think.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline  
Old 01-25-2005, 12:26 AM   #208
3 Rivet Member
 
Hippo's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 180
Images: 2
Smile

I think the red and blue states was a dumb idea. It goes back to the civil war the gray and the blue.
The Prez is trying his best for the country.
Out here in Washington State the Governor race is a joke. When can 120 felons be allowed to vote and their vote was counted. How can 30 people use the same King County Court House address as their legal home. How can so dead people vote and be counted. Only in American that's how!
__________________
Hippo is offline  
Old 01-25-2005, 03:27 AM   #209
qqq
4 Rivet Member
 
qqq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 403
Images: 4
The Weasels were right !
__________________
qqq is offline  
Old 01-25-2005, 07:32 AM   #210
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bredlo
I think we've kept this clean and rather polite, yet passionate. Well... except for the part where I compared Markdoane to a little brat on the playground - a comment which I'm standing by!
Brad,

Perhaps I misunderstood your original comment:
"And as for China, I guess you're prefer to play the kid that whines on the playground, "But what about him, Mommy? He doesn't haftuh!""

Do you believe that the USA should just suck it up and let a country like China have a free pass? And you think that statescraft doesn't involve whining? Don't get a job in the State Department!

And who is the "Mommy"? The UN? Global opinion? Allah?

Perhaps if we use the "He doesn't haftuh!" argument, then Korea and Iran should use the same reasoning when we demand that they stop manufacturing nuclear weapons?

You're welcome to stand by your comment. I just don't think it made a whole lot of sense as a argument for the Kyoto Accord.
__________________

__________________
markdoane is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I am going to be RICH I tell you! thenewkid64 Off Topic Forum 19 12-16-2004 07:38 PM
Fantastic Fan or Air Conditioning??? Charcigar Roof Vents, Skylights & Fans 15 01-21-2003 09:19 PM
grey water tank BIG question escapeez Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 19 09-05-2002 07:52 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.