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Old 01-24-2005, 07:35 PM   #169
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I'm not in denial. I suspect that global warming is well underway. But that doesn't convince me that the Kyoto Accord is the solution. At best, it will give everyone a false sense of security that we identified the problem and fixed it. NOT SO! We are going to need the paradigm shifts such as hydrogen power, reforestation, wind power, and other technologies we don't know about yet.

At worse, the Kyoto Accord will be another 'Oil for Food' program that is abused, ripped-off, and manipulated to benefit a few rich corporations and tyrant governments
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:37 PM   #170
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At worse, the Kyoto accord will be another 'Oil for Food' program that is abused, ripped-off, and manipulated to benefit a few rich corporations and tyrant governments
I so agree with these comments.
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:46 PM   #171
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Heck half the countries hero, John Kerry, he planned on bringing jobs back to our country right? Was he going to start by having his wife bring the Heinz jobs back to the US? I also wonder how much more Heinz makes by not having to follow emission laws in the countries they operate plants. I guess my point is that it isn't fair to make one guy the bad guy...politicians by definition are dishonest folks.
I don't think that John Kerry has any controll over the Heinz Company. The company was long in place before he married Teresa. The heir to the Heinz company was Teresa's late husband Sen. H. John Heinz III. He was a Republican and IMO a greater man than George W. Bush.

Ben
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:48 PM   #172
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[QUOTE=leefields]has lasted a long time....

i spend a lot of time lurking in the background, most of the posts i spend time on are more informative to me as i seek out particular information....

but, ....having said that....the "left" annoy the 'H' out of me at times....and maybe more so the "right" who are either timid or too afraid to stand up and say what is on their minds, .....


3. the borders....close them off....completely. Activate the national guards in the border states and post men every couple of miles...fly helo's with heat sensing and night vision lenses...3000-4000 per day crossing from mexico alone...what are we stupid...close the borders..let everyone who wants to leave...just go, go back home...see your family, file your papers to come here and request a job and wait for an answer...if you stay here...no drivers license, no job, no social security, if arrested for any reason....deportation, health care that will be billed to you...no school for you or your children, no beer sales, no gun sales, no car sales, ....no airline tickets, no gas purchase, no bank accounts....nothing. go back home and develope your 3rd world country as best as you can...it will never get better if everyone keeps leaving.

QUOTE]

Might I inquire as to where your grandparents, or great-grandparents immigrated from? Or are they Native American Indians?
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:57 PM   #173
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Yes, but Ms. Heinz-Kerry, you know the one who has a REAL job, is married to a Democrat and acts like a Republican. Folks say that George should clean his own house, and my point in all that was the do as I say and not as I do type thing I saw John Kerry family/camp doing. Not saying George was any better, but folks had this false sense of security thinking that John was the savior of the country when in fact his wife's interest in the Heinz Empire was totally hypocritical to John's overall game plan on environment and bringing jobs back to this country. We are slowly becoming a service economy.

As for the border comment, I will say this, though I don't agree fully with the essence of the comment, I will note this....

With all the budget shortfalls going on, do folks really realize how much money is spent on illegal folks? Let me ponit out that it's well into the millions, and that might not even take into account those folks that are placed in the correctional systems or the current costs of patrol and enforcement of the immigration laws. The boarder states of our southern neighbors have the worst situation and are bleeding cash like stuck pigs over this single issue. Again, I have no solutions, but simply pointing out a few things to add to the conversation.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:03 PM   #174
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I'm glad things are getting better in other parts of the country. Not so in TX. The pollution is terrible. 40% of the kids in this area have asthma and now oil and gas co.s can drill on your property as long as they are 200' away from your house. The land owner has NO rights. This is happening all around us. We got a letter last week about our back two acres. ^ bureaucrats (as they identified themselves) in Austin say TX totally supports the oil and gas co.s The individual has no rights. And concidentially the letter arrived on the same day as my new (more) solar panels. The only thing they suggested it I get a personal lawyer so my family might get benefits on my wrongful death. So that's why I call my new airstream "The Escape Pod", as drilling could start in as early as 2 weeks. Anyone who knows of any helpful suggestions (Silvertwinkie you are not allowed ANY suggestions), I certainly would appreciate it. As I am feeling rather lost in having to fight the state of TX. Thanks, Silver Suz
P.S. the next big area of fighting will be in Indonesia, caused by outside well trained Islamic militants.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:07 PM   #175
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America the Beautiful

I want to add something positive to this thread.
I see NO CLEAR SOLUTION to any of the things we have been discussing.

I DO know, however, that we live in the most beautiful country in the world, and no one is going to show up at any of our doors and haul us away for ranting and raving and agreeing and disagreeing on this forum.
We can vent and express opinion freely, and hopefully we can show respect for each other, whether we are "blue" or "red."
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:07 PM   #176
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Do you realize how much the orchard industry alone depends on the cheap illegal labor which follows the crops around through N CA, OR, and WA state? There are a lot of big money industries that don't want anything done about illegals, no matter what kind of noises they make to the contrary. The immigration cops bust their farms and warehouses and drag away the illegals to be deported, much to the annoyance of the businesses which get disrupted until they can refill those jobs - though the businesses are never held responsible for hiring them in the first place. The businesses are treated like victims, and they go hire some more illegals. At least that's what we saw when we lived in Yakima, WA, apple country.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:08 PM   #177
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Anyone who knows of any helpful suggestions (Silvertwinkie you are not allowed ANY suggestions), I certainly would appreciate it. As I am feeling rather lost in having to fight the state of TX. Thanks, Silver Suz
Gotcha....thought never even crossed my mind.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:10 PM   #178
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Gotcha, I stand corrected.

With all due respect, (and my own fear that you may indeed be proven right,) that's why we need people running our countries that simply won't sit back and accept that outcome. We need the vision in America that brought us out from under England's thumb, reunited a country broken in two, and that delivered us to the moon, Mars, and now Titan. It's a giant challenge, and one that may ultimately prove impossible to survive - for the literally universal forces involved, and for our character flaws as a species (as you mention,) but there is an answer out there somewhere. We must see beyond the end of the internal combustion engine, past the limits of what will be immediately financially profitable, and perhaps beyond the borders of our very planet to find it... but an answer is out there and if we apply ourselves, we won't be forced to succumb to a sad, cold death.
I fear that you put your finger on the problem. I believe the answer is not "out there". That's the difference. The answer is where the problem is, within each of us. "Out there" thinking is the problem, not the solution. You see it's a form of shifting responsibility to someone elses actions or lack of actions. Want to fit it. Stop using more than you "need" for basic survival. Then sell the rest of us on it..
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:16 PM   #179
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Before we go sounding off about our 'south of the border' neighbors, we better get a good count of how many are earning their citizenship by serving bravely in our armed services.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:18 PM   #180
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I bet there are a few guys wanted by the police in Lee's area. I wonder if he is all for carpet bombing his town.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:23 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Not saying George was any better, but folks had this false sense of security thinking that John was the savior of the country when in fact his wife's interest in the Heinz Empire was totally hypocritical to John's overall game plan on environment and bringing jobs back to this country. We are slowly becoming a service economy.


With all the budget shortfalls going on, do folks really realize how much money is spent on illegal folks? Let me ponit out that it's well into the millions, and that might not even take into account those folks that are placed in the correctional systems or the current costs of patrol and enforcement of the immigration laws. The boarder states of our southern neighbors have the worst situation and are bleeding cash like stuck pigs over this single issue.
Most major companies have operations overseas. People in other countries eat and use products too. My Heinz Ketchup is still made in Pittsburgh, PA.
The service jobs are being sent to India.

It doesn't matter because these people work for less money. That is where George W. Bush's interest is.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:29 PM   #182
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With all the budget shortfalls going on, do folks really realize how much money is spent on illegal folks? Let me ponit out that it's well into the millions, and that might not even take into account those folks that are placed in the correctional systems or the current costs of patrol and enforcement of the immigration laws. The boarder states of our southern neighbors have the worst situation and are bleeding cash like stuck pigs over this single issue. Again, I have no solutions, but simply pointing out a few things to add to the conversation.
Don't you think that if the government wanted to do something about it they could? With the technology we have? Our government SAYS one thing and DOES another when it comes to illegal immigration. The plain fact of the matter is they do not want to fix the problem. Illegals provide a cheap source of labor to many businesses and individuals, including those high up in society. It is rampant. To think that Bernard Kerik, NY Police Commissioner, had to withdraw from his nomination for Chief of Homeland Security because he employed an illegal just goes to show how accepted it is. And whenever someone is caught, especially a public figure, they say "gee, I didn't know". Well how about asking to see documentation?

As long as it is so widespread and tacitly condoned among those in power, the problem will not go away. And I don't think we should be giving them drivers licenses either, as that is one more message that it is ok to come here and work illegally.
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