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Old 01-24-2005, 01:11 AM   #127
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Old 01-24-2005, 01:20 AM   #128
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So Lee, why are we in Iraq? I thought it was to stop the madman who ran the country from killing all the innocents under his dictatorship? But according to you we should carpet bomb the hell out of their cities and kill all the civilians necessary to bring the guerrila enemy forces under control? This is how you liberate people? Don't you think that might encourage even more of them to figure out how to come over here and kill us? I thought the point was to spread freedom and liberty, not overwhelm them with terror ourselves. Killing innocents is not a very Christian thing to do.

Of course some say we are there to get the weapons, but now we know there are no weaons. And there hasn't been any proof that he was organizing terrorists, so that can't be why we're there. There's something wrong with a war where we can't even all agree on why we're there and what we're fighting for. I mean really, shouldn't we all be able to at least agree on that part of it?

Sounds to me like you live in constant fear of the terrorists. Exactly what they wanted. I for one am not ready to sign away my rights and freedoms to the government (of all the people I don't want to trust with that kind of power, it's the government). Does that make me right or left? We can't have a single post here without assigning labels to everyone.

I'm not even going to touch the other subjects you managed to toss in there!
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Old 01-24-2005, 02:23 AM   #129
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I thought we went into Iraq to close down the "rape rooms", stop people from being put through "wood chippers" and to keep holes in the ground from being filled up with people that were lined up and shot just becuase they did not agree with their govt.. As far as weapons, we know they had them! WE GAVE THEM THE WEAPONS!! Remeber the Iraq/Iran war?? But remember one thing, the people in that part of the world have been fighting/killing each other for thousands of years in the name of religion. What is sad, even with all the wealth created by someone else (BP,EXXON,SHELL) from something that is only pumped out of the ground and sold abroad, that part of the world still has no world class hospitals, Univ., Welfare, etc... Even the late PLO leader had to be sent to Paris. Their childeren are sent here and to the Europe for school. All I know is everytime someone gets into trouble they call the USA. The world reminds me of a teenage child. The child will talk about how controlling the parents are, how dumb they are, how they don't need them. But as some as that childs needs money, help, get out of trouble, the first one they call on is the parent. We are not a perfect nation, we are far from it. But, if you have had the chance to travel to other parts of the world were your fulltime job is just finding food and water for the day. After seeing that, you'd know you got it pretty d*mm good. People in the USA talk about being "poor", even the worst off in this country are not poor. Their just "broke". Because in the USA, if you are willing to just get out of bed in the morning and go to work, you can survive. The problem we have in this country is that everyone whats a 45" TV, cellphone, a daily pack of cigs, a 12pack of beer and hopes that someday they are going to win the 50 million dollar lottery (which is just another 30-45%TAX for those who do not know). What I find sad is the people who can least afford to buy the above are the ones buying it. Next time you are in the store and buy your child the milk container the shape of SuperMan, you will know why we have a trade imbalance(made in China). Again, we are not perfect. We make mistakes. But again, like the teenager, everyone wants everything with "NO STRINGS ATTACHED". Maybe the middle east needs to understand we are like Walmart, if you want us to sell and use your product, you will do it on our terms! If not, there is always another supplier out there.


Sorry, my wife bought a big box of soap from COSTCO that was made in China and I had to step up on it.

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Old 01-24-2005, 02:27 AM   #130
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Atta Girl Stef

Canada sides with Stef on this one! (not that it matters)

I think the freedom GW is fighting for is the freedom for Iraqui's to chose between Pepsi or Coke, McD's or Burger King. Gotta secure the area for capitalism.

The only time I the last decade I have been proud of our CDN leaders was when they stood up to GW and said there was no proof of WMD's, so we're not with you (not that it mattered).

Maybe GW should clean up his own backyard before he starts on others. You'll be glad to know that the last time I crossed the border, I was photo'd and fingerprinted. They're probably monitoring this site so next time i'll be lucky to see the light of day.

My $0.02 (keep the change).
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Old 01-24-2005, 02:59 AM   #131
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Security...

Hi Guys....
Yep, this Security thing kinda worried US over here, as WE All comin over 2 Fla: in Nov ( My 8th trip to the States )...I bn readin SOB posts ( DIBB ), All abt Florida & Disney...& how the Security IS beefed up at the Airports alone, Finger Prints, Eye Scans...Big Guys with BIGGER GUNS...& Dogs that can SMELL Nervous people a million miles away...Hum-Vees armed 2 the back teeth waitin 2 whisk U away if U much as do the smallest botty-burp...very Scarey indeed....even gettin in2 DISNEY is a long winded experience in it's self...SIGH...NOW I understand that a LOT of Brits R jus a lttl upset by it all...kinda " What R WE lettin ourselves in 4...)....BUT I 4 one, don't give a Monkey's let NUT...I look at it this way...What difference IS it gonna make If I say something abt all, once the Govt: says...that's it as far as everyone else is concerned...They say they gotta DO what they gotta do, in the INTEREST of NATIONAL SECURITY...'cos in the end, it affects U, it's life & we wanna make U feel wanted...besides WE kn U TOURISTS R good 4 our economy..so don't B put off, get over here & put yr credit-cards in2 MELTDOWN....& don't think abt wot U C, jus relax & enjoy Yourself....I guess it's Accepted Tollerance now 2 C such heavinees at the Airports & places where LOTS of people amass....
Still WE kn it won't spoil OUR Holiday...We R used 2 waitin in line 4 ages as it is...it's how us Brits R...LOL...but what narks Me is, when U finaly get 2the window, it closes on U...without warnin...gettin in line here...roll up, roll up, get pissed off at this window....No extra charge...roll up roll up....
Well whoever & whatever...ALL of U enjoy Yr day2day...OK...Chris.....
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Old 01-24-2005, 03:20 AM   #132
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Old 01-24-2005, 03:46 AM   #133
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If you all think we are in Iraq for any other main reason but oil, you are not right. It was the basis of the '91 war and is the main (not only) reason now. As has been said, we have a huge addiction to foreign oil. I don't see any of us towing with electric cars here. So in fact we are all part of the problem. Saddam screwed around with the world for 12 years. How much more B.S. were we gonna put up with? Some of the countries that screamed the loudest when it came to not going into Iraq, were the same ones making profits dealing either independently or through the oil for aid program. The oil for food program is just another example of how the UN was asleep at the wheel and Saddam was allowed to divert millions from it into his personal accounts to one day rebuild his war machine once the UN felt comfortable he was disarmed. So we'd have to deal with him again later after he had nuclear and more chemical and bio weapons again. This man in possesion of such weapons and with such a history endangered a good percentage of the oil supply and stability in the region.

Iraq had WMDs in the past. This was a fact as Saddam used them at least 2x. There were also no clear indications that he got rid of them... Saddam attacked Kwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel over the systematic raping of Kwait that started the '91 war. Folks need to take their blinders off and look at the big picture. Some of these issues go beyond simple terrorism. Should we have gone it alone with a handful of countries, only history will be able to show if it was the correct decsion or not. None of us here can say yes or no to that. I will say that we made the mistake before and during WW2 allowing Hitler to go basically unchecked and look where it got us...by not dealing with the issue when we should have, thousands, if not millions more were killed as a result of doing nothing that might not had happened if the world took action.

The issues in the Middle East are far more complex than anyone really understands....has been for a long time. But ask yourself a question. If what is happening in Iraq today was so just from the insurgent perspective, why are they killing so many innocent Iraqis in suicide bombings? Why not just target our folks or that of the non Iraqi forces? Iraq is just the beginning because this is an unconventional war. A war being fought not by states, but by groups. It took 9/11 to make us see that. There is a whole lot of money out there folks, that these groups have and lots of countries that either have the big guns or are getting them, some very corrupt nations that would sell their mothers for a dime. So some of you are right, there is no direct link, but do you really want to take the chance given the power of these weapons and what would the cost be of being wrong here and just turning a blind eye be?

In the end we have what we have. The majority have spoken. This time not only by electoral, but by popular vote. Like GW or not, he's here for 4 more years. Feel free to move to Canada if things are not to your liking as I hear their immagration website is getting a lot of Democrat visits lately.
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Old 01-24-2005, 06:14 AM   #134
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This is all I have to say....
That repulsive graphic adds nothing to this discussion and I for one wish it was removed.


By the way canny_banjo_man forget about baggage handling you should get into the diplomatic corps somehow...

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Old 01-24-2005, 06:19 AM   #135
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More of my civilian non military thoughts prior to Mr. Bush invading Iraq:

Violence begets violence.

Using violence to quell a violent force only creates more violence.

My next thoughts were that the American public is not prepared to be as nasty as we would have to be to fight this war. I knew we would need to fight dirty and use methods that the American public would abhor.

Once again, I hoped to be wrong.
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Old 01-24-2005, 07:59 AM   #136
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so thats why Jesus said " I have not come to replace the law but to fill it more full? (Matthew 5:17)The "law" applies to all Christians and Jews. After all He was a Jew himself.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:01 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by tinsltootsie
More of my civilian non military thoughts prior to Mr. Bush invading Iraq:

Violence begets violence.

Using violence to quell a violent force only creates more violence.

My next thoughts were that the American public is not prepared to be as nasty as we would have to be to fight this war. I knew we would need to fight dirty and use methods that the American public would abhor.
I would have to agree with the first, but disagree with the second. Personally, I'd love to see the CIA of days gone by and do whatever it took to get it in order. I personally would have no issue with them doing what they did back in the Cold War days. The CIA and KGB are the 2 most powerful centers in the world.

As for the first, comment however, I'd have to say, we didn't ask for this, it came to us, and frankly if it takes drastic violence to quell these folks, again, I have no problem with that fact. I mean to be honest, why do folks think we and other countries build guns, chemical, bio and nuclear weapons? The same reason we have tanks, plane, choppers, etc, and it isn't so we can just say we have big sticks in the playground. We build them with use in mind. War is politics by other means, however todays wars have taken a religious undertone to it. The one distinct difference between them and us is that we don't specifically target civilians (except in nuclear conflict), though innocents do get caught in the crossfire, be it by accident or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, that's just a fact of war..it's regrettable, but I'd say the end justify the means...regardless if it was GW or Kerry sending the marching orders, though frankly, I felt that Kerry would act more like Clinton who I voted for the first time around, but not the second after I realized what a mistake I had made (and I don't really need to explain why...I think we all know).

BTW...totally off topic, but just a blurb to ack the passing of Johnny Carson. A class act in every sense.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:01 AM   #138
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"F" (.....hummmm, forget) la france.
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:05 AM   #139
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Speaking of the French, Brandi is half French, and I'll catch hell for this comment, but aren't they the one's that argue with their friends and surrender to their enemies?
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Old 01-24-2005, 08:08 AM   #140
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Stef does not sound like she as a clue....smell that coffee.
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