Fun in New Jersey --- NOT !!!!

[AIRHEDS]

Originally Posted by ITSNO60

If that really was cell phone video the phone had to have been in some type of mount, the video is too steady to be hand held. Also the video starts before any swaying really happens which indicates the phone was already filming, no one could grab a phone that fast and start recording. Another possibility is that is really was a dash cam and after stopping the driver pulled it off it's mount to save the video before it got lost or recorded over. My dash cam has a button to push in order to prevent an important event from getting over-written, it saves the last clip in a special folder.

Negative on mount, sir. I actually commented on the video that was posted to Facebook ... it's a handheld (likely a phone) because at the end of the video, which is clearly in his hand, the camera view changes gradually from the road, through his dash, steering wheel, down to his lap. He was just stabilizing his hand on the steering wheel or dashboard. Moreover, my observation on FB when I saw the video was that he had the camera at the ready, filming, before the tragic sway unfolded. This implies to me that he was either driving erratically or was experiencing sway events that led to the following vehicle to start recording what he thought was about to unfold... We obviously don't know speed, wind, or anything else. I observed that he drifted to the right some, then corrected left (about the time the vehicle passed him on his left)... I think it was an over-correction that set the catastrophic oscillations in play. Just my humble opinion...

[uncle_bob]

Hi

There is mention in some of the comments on one of the sites that the phone video started after the trailer moved from the left lane over to the right. There is not much more than that as to why the recording started.

Bob

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

I do not know what is worse, the avoidable accident or the fool driving and videoing the incident with his hand held phone/camera.

I'm sure many people can hold an object in their right hand and still drive safely. Others can't. If I ran the show I would test drivers with distractions like they did when I learned to fly an airplane but then probably 20% of people wouldn't get licenses.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

I'm sure many people can hold an object in their right hand and still drive safely. Others can't.

No one ever drives as safely with one had on the wheel as they do with both hands on the wheel. It's just ergonomically impossible. They might be safe enough in most cases, but WTSHTF (when the sh— ahem, stuff— hits the fan) there's no substitute for having both hands on the wheel in the 10-and-2 positions.

"Haven't had an accident yet" is not necessarily the same as "driving safely."

[Tn Traveler]

Just yesterday I was driving South from Knoxville on I-75 at maybe 62 mph. In my mirror was an Airstream in the LH lane moving up fast. He caught me and passed very fast. It was about a 25 FB pulled by a red Dodge P/U. The white protective plastic was still on the rock guards. That told me that it was probably a new delivery. Man, he was sure moving that AS.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

. . .
. . . there's no substitute for having both hands on the wheel in the 10-and-2 positions.
. . .

Especially in the case of a tire blowout as may have happened here. One aspect of having both hands on the wheel like this, is that you can stabilize your body with the wheel if the vehicle lurches quickly to the right or left.

With only one hand on the wheel, and a casual body position, a sudden vehicle lurch can throw a driver off-center and off-balance. Recovering a proper driving posture and total control of the vehicle can be difficult.

Accidents like this happen so quickly, as I learned last fall when our tow vehicle was rear-ended and totaled. Fortunately I was sitting up straight with both hands on the wheel, and had a second or two to do what we have practiced many times -- sit up straight and put my head back against the head rest, then exhale at the moment of impact. Seemed strange to practice this over decades of driving, but it probably paid off with minimal neck and back damage from the crash.

Life is short!

Peter

[Protagonist]

Another trick they don't teach you in normal driver's ed classes— though some commercial driving courses and hands-on defensive driving courses do— is to look where you want the vehicle to go during an emergency, not in the direction it is going at the time. The human body is optimized for moving in the direction your eyes are looking, and if you focus on your escape path, you're more likely to instinctively steer toward your escape path. I've had occasion to use that trick to turn an almost sure-thing accident into a near miss, as well as to recover from fishtailing on black ice.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by KCCO

Now now - don't you dare say anything about the limits of an expedition........that thing has independent rear suspension - put a good hitch on it and it will tow aaaaaaaaanything........haha

Hope everyone involved is ok!

Note that the trailer pulled that independent suspended Expedition all over the road, and it remained upright. Everyone involved is okay.

No doubt, if it had a good hitch setup and perhaps a more stable trailer design (like an independent suspended Airstream, for example) it would not have happened in the first place.

There is always too much emphasis and money spent on tow vehicle and trailer and so very little on hitch setup, which will eliminate sway completely.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

. . . , as well as to recover from fishtailing on black ice.

Great tip, and I happened to have done it once by instinct as a young driver threading our way through a multi-vehicle dance on a slick Interstate. I guess it was my dad who had taught me to accelerate to gain control, and the studded snow tires did their job as we bolted through small openings between vehicles and popped out unscathed.

My passenger, who had been sleeping when it started, awoke ashen-faced but alive!

Your tip prompted the recollection -- just now -- of "seeing" the path of escape through the twirling cars, and focusing on that path through the few seconds it all took to resolve. Thanks for the memory jog!

Peter

[Mattirs]

The other Tip to use if confronted by another vehicle that is out of control is to aim for where the vehicle is at that moment, by the time you get ther it will no longer be there. Sounds like you did that instinctively Peter.

Matti

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by dkottum

......

No doubt, if it had a good hitch setup and perhaps a more stable trailer design (like an independent suspended Airstream, for example) it would not have happened in the first place.
.....

.

Hi

Has anybody been able to ID the trailer or the hitch? The video is grainy enough that I can't make out much of the markings on the trailer.

Whatever the hitch setup was, I'm still amazed at the amount of abuse it took without separating from the TV. A lot of things went wrong here. The hitch separating from the TV was not one of them. The safety chains did not come into play this time.

Like a lot of others have mentioned - it's a bit amazing that the guy doing the video stayed out of the wreck. Slowing down / maneuvering / driving / filming all at once is a bit of an overload. If a chunk of debris had bounced his way ....yikes....

Indeed in something like this there is a fine line between slowing down to quickly and not fast enough. There are a lot of examples where the following car has braked very hard and then got rear ended. It's a bit more common at night, but it can happen in broad daylight.

Bob

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Mattirs

The other Tip to use if confronted by another vehicle that is out of control is to aim for where the vehicle is at that moment, by the time you get ther it will no longer be there.

So you're saying, if someone runs a red light or stop sign in front of you crossing your lane of traffic, steer to pass behind him rather than trying to stop in a straight line and T-bone him. That of course presumes that the other vehicle will keep moving at the same speed in the same direction. Not always a foregone conclusion, but as split-second decisions go, that's not bad at all.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

No one ever drives as safely with one had on the wheel as they do with both hands on the wheel. It's just ergonomically impossible. They might be safe enough in most cases, but WTSHTF (when the sh— ahem, stuff— hits the fan) there's no substitute for having both hands on the wheel in the 10-and-2 positions.

"Haven't had an accident yet" is not necessarily the same as "driving safely."

Funny thing is.....now days they recommend the 4 and 8 o'clock position as your arms and hands don't get hurt with an airbag deployment.

Cheers
Tony

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Funny thing is.....now days they recommend the 4 and 8 o'clock position as your arms and hands don't get hurt with an airbag deployment.

That's a defeatist attitude that says, "I'm gonna get in a wreck and my airbag IS going to deploy." Defensive driving is all about accident avoidance, not accident survival.

They don't tell you that in an accident your airbags are going to injure you no matter what, by giving you nasty chemical burns on your face. They don't tell you that if your seat belt saves your life, it will break your collarbone, crack some ribs, and bruise both hips while doing it. But that's true, too. Ask any paramedic that's ever cut someone out of a car. Compared to that, having my arms injured by the airbag is just more of the same, and not worthy of surrendering an ounce of control to avoid.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

That's a defeatist attitude that says, "I'm gonna get in a wreck and my airbag IS going to deploy." Defensive driving is all about accident avoidance, not accident survival.

They don't tell you that in an accident your airbags are going to injure you no matter what, by giving you nasty chemical burns on your face. They don't tell you that if your seat belt saves your life, it will break your collarbone, crack some ribs, and bruise both hips while doing it. But that's true, too. Ask any paramedic that's ever cut someone out of a car. Compared to that, having my arms injured by the airbag is just more of the same, and not worthy of surrendering an ounce of control to avoid.

Hi

That all *assumes* you have airbags that function properly. There are a *lot* of cars and trucks on the road that have (at least potentially) airbags that include a "shrapnel" feature. It will be a long time before all of those suspect devices get replaced ....

All that said, I'd rather have seat belts and airbags than not have them. Voice command everything that triggers for no reason at all and can not be disabled .... that I can do without

Bob

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

There are a *lot* of cars and trucks on the road that have (at least potentially) airbags that include a "shrapnel" feature. It will be a long time before all of those suspect devices get replaced ....

I just got the recall notice on my Interstate earlier this week, and I need to schedule a day trip to Mercedes-Benz of Baton Rouge in the near future to get that taken care of.

Oddly enough, I still haven't gotten the recall notice on my Honda Fit…

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

No one ever drives as safely with one had on the wheel as they do with both hands on the wheel. It's just ergonomically impossible. They might be safe enough in most cases, but WTSHTF (when the sh— ahem, stuff— hits the fan) there's no substitute for having both hands on the wheel in the 10-and-2 positions.

"Haven't had an accident yet" is not necessarily the same as "driving safely."

Most people drive with one hand on the wheel. If you can't get the other hand on the wheel quickly in an emergency you might want to put 'em at 10 and 2 and keep them there but Might get tiring on a long trip. Recognizing trouble and staying away from it goes a long way. I'm always "profiling" driver behavior and vehicle appearance and adjusting accordingly.

"Never had an accident" means you are doing something right especially if you can say that for a period of 40 years and several million miles. It ain't luck.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

"Never had an accident" means you are doing something right especially if you can say that for a period of 40 years and several million miles. It ain't luck.

I disagree. Sometimes it IS luck.

As a collateral-duty safety coordinator for the Army Corps of Engineers, a certified person for fall protection, and a member of a board of investigation for two different fatalities and numerous non-fatal accidents during my career, I can attest that people can get away with doing things wrong for a looooong time before it finally bites them on the butt. "We've always done it that way and never hand a problem" until the one time when they do have a problem. "We've always done it that way and never had a problem" does NOT equate to "We've always done it safely."

The reason for this phenomenon is that no accident EVER has just one cause. An unsafe condition combined with an unsafe act, or two unsafe acts that occur in just the right sequence (usually the two acts are by different people in that case). An unsafe condition can exist for a long time without being repaired, and doesn't cause an accident because everyone knows about it and takes precautions. People perform unsafe acts all the time, and get away with it because there's no unsafe condition to aggravate the problem. It's only when they come together that accidents happen. If the unsafe act and the unsafe condition never happen at the same place at the same time to make an accident, then it IS luck that you got away with the unsafe act for so long.

Texting while driving is an excellent case study. You might text while driving every single day for years and never have an accident because your distracted driving never happens when there's a problem ahead of you. And if you do text and drive and get away with it, you'll probably even think, "I'm a good driver, because I can do this and others can't." Until that one time when something else happens in front of you when you're not looking and you can't react quickly enough. Unsafe act plus unsafe condition equals accident.

I'm not saying that you, Countryboy59, are doing anything unsafe. I'm just saying that "never had an accident" really doesn't always mean "always been safe."

[OTRA15]

The same video has been posted in a new thread FYI:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...le-175510.html

. . . although the soundtrack is different.

Peter

[uncle_bob]

Hi

How unusual that we (or any forum) would have multiple threads on the same topic

Bob