Flimm-flammed by my teachers

[hshovic]

Now what?

Reading the paper, I have a distinct feeling my generation has been flimm-flammed by my parents and teachers.
I heard from those parents and teachers that "saving is good". I heard "greed is bad".
I heard "low prices are desirable".
I heard "you must face the consequences of your actions". And "America leads the world in democracy and taking care of its citizens." I'll bet you have heard the same. Turns out they are all wrong!

On the subject of "Greed is good":

A lawyer relative has a nice way of putting it. "Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered".

In other words, greed is good, but excessive greed has a price. I thought the American way was to allow all freedoms, as long as actions do not
infringe on another's freedoms. And that we all have the opportunity to follow those freedoms, as long as we take the consequences for them. As an example: greed is allowed, even encouraged, but leads to risks.

So if a small business gets greedy, charges a high price, and makes bad investments, that owner has the opportunity to fail. And those that invested in that business get to face the consequences.

Here's where it breaks down:

If a big business gets greedy, they can get free money, because they are too important to fail. Hence the hogs flooding to the government trough of the bailout. After years of decrying government interference.

On the Subject of "Saving":

I always heard it was best to save and then spend. And it is a good thing to be out of debt.

Yet I just read that a very smart financial advisor reports that recently savings are up and spending is down.
And that's a bad thing!!! Because from their perspective, less spending (and less debt) means less profits, further fueling DOW reductions.

And low prices or "Deflation":

The American way is capitalism. If demand goes up, prices go up. If supply is too high, prices go down.
If demand goes down, prices come down, benefiting the consumer. That's the way it is supposed to work.

At least that's what I thought. Wrong again.

Deflation is described by the financial advisor as the process of prices coming down, usually with decreased demand.

And the same financial advisor says "Bad thing!" Again, because lower prices means less profits, further fueling DOW reductions.

On Leading the world:

And the Chinese have their own competitive bailout program now, taking a cue from the U. S. But notice where
they are proposing to spend it. On roads, bridges, and other infrastructure improvement! Helping out with jobs, foreign investment, and the welfare of the citizens.

And where are we, the leaders of the free world, spending it? On bailing out hogs...

Of course there are people who will say this is hogwash. And they are right, as it turns out.

In the current administration hogs get washed, and the rest stay dirty.

In conclusion:

* Greed is good, if one is really greedy. Then it is rewarded.
* Saving is bad. Best to spend all you have and then some.
* Lowering prices is bad.
* And spending for the people with the people's money is bad.

Yes indeed, flimm-flammed again.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Your not fishing are you?

[fastrob]

Hank,

I agree with quite a bit of what you said. Nice end note too.

"Its better to light just one candle than to curse the darkness,

Unless you're blinded by the light..."

As a society we have not looked much for the light lately, I think.

[hshovic]

Frantic,
No, not fishing... Can't go fishing... Have to work after retirement, because of the economy...

[pilgrim]

I think the sad thing is the person that just called their banker and asked what was in all the new assist programs for him - he's made all his mortgage payments for 25 years - and on time. He was told that the new programs were for those irresponsible folks that need help - it isn't for the responsible folks that have been making their payments on time. How can you possibly reconcile such thinking??? Makes you wonder why you've been so good at making all your payments on time. With such thinking, I'm not sure where this is headed.

[fastrob]

When bad behavior is rewarded:

Give a kid a piece of candy to shut up.
Give a banker a few billion because he lost the bank on bad loans or risky investments.
We never get rid of the bad behavior.

When our kids went somewhere we let it be known that bad behavior would not be rewarded.
We left a few places because of unacceptable acts early on, never later.

The lucky ones are lining up for handouts early, the back of the line, the taxpayer, the worker, the retiree (Airstreamer), just get the bill.

[TROPHYJIM2]

Hank, Start investing any amount of dollars in this crummy economic time. If you are young you too can take advantage of this down turn along with those who don't deserve it. The young smart folks will have a nice nest egg in 20 years and those that got bailed will be back in debt or never get out of it no matter what the time frame.


Jim

[jerrypeterma]

trophy is right, but if you are 60 like me, all you can do is bend over and take it.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Their bite'n now..

[Diesel1]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Their bite'n now..

This is GOOD bait, of course they're bite'n.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Diesel1

This is GOOD bait, of course they're bite'n.

Chum

[Diesel1]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Chum

stink bait

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Diesel1

stink bait

Yep 'yer right it is stink bait, thats why the fishing's good.

[Diesel1]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Yep 'yer right it is stink bait, thats why the fishing's good.

I'm not a fisherman,but, stink bait is for suckers?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Diesel1

I'm not a fisherman,but, stink bait is for suckers?

Thanks, you answered your own question

[Over59]

Like the song says.... It's only just begun..... One more good bounce and then EOW right on time, Dec 2012. Of course if financial gain isn't how you keep score on your life you may not even notice.... We are living in what will be the most dramatic times of the modern era. So far it's mostly a news story for the talking heads. When people like Paulson look scared and the new guy announces he will continue the programs in place, the only reasonable response is to fill the escape pod with ready to eats and a good water purification system.

[rgesch]

Once again...

I was going to post...

but, I'd better not.

[ROBERT CROSS]

To all those who have taken this thread seriously, I apologize.

But...all my posts have been labeled correctly.

From a Bass,(small fish with a large mouth),Turd,(well.. we all know what that is)

Stream Safe.

[Ken J]

I think we should all take this seriously - we are in a big mess and all of us are responsible for it. As I see it Hank describes our current thinking and we all know its wrong, however, we are a generation that is spoiled rotten - we've not been through a real depression, we've not been through WW2 and we expect life to be easy - always...

Shame on us...

Ken J.

[hshovic]

Thanks for the responses! It's either fish or cut bait, and I chose to fish.
Or maybe write bait... Wait, I think I have short term memory loss. Was I fishing or baiting? Or just lowering blood pressure by out-gassing?

To continue, it just makes me angry that our entire economy is based on "froth". Let me explain.

* The pundits rale on our GDP being down 1%. Yet no-one notices its still 99% strong.

* The retailers howl about Black Friday being poor. That's the traditional time retailers start to make a profit (11 months into the year or almost 93% of that year).

* Consumer confidence is down. Spending is 1-2% down. Yet there are howls of consternation from finance and retail.

My conclusions from this is that individuals and institutions have come to expect that their profitability is entirely dependent on those last few percent of "froth" on top of a stable base. The entire system has been developed on anticipated growth, and when that growth stops, the "froth" lessens and the bottom drops out of profits.

It's yet another flimm-flamm from my parents. They encouraged me to "be happy with what you have". Obviously wrong.

But there's a good side. You (and me) thought we were powerless as a class to influence the power-brokers, mega-retailers, bankers, and wall street. Noooooo.

All it took was the threat of saving a bit more, spending a bit less on credit, and putting off buying that new car a while, to bring the financial nation to its knees. Power to the People!