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Old 06-19-2013, 09:54 AM   #15
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Perhaps turn to John Stuart Mill for insight.

"In all intellectual debates, both sides tend to be correct in what they affirm, and wrong in what they deny"

"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that"

“The real advantage which truth has, consists in this, that when an opinion is true, it may be extinguished once, twice or many times, but in the course of ages there will generally found person to rediscover it, until some of its reappearances falls on a time when from favourable circumstances it escapes persecution until it has made such head as to withstand all subsequent attempts to suppress it.”

FWIW

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #16
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I love the different opinions posted here. That is how I learn and boy have I learned a lot since joining. I find, on the most part, that this forum remains relatively civil especially compared to the other one I used to read.

My issue here is when someone enters the discussion and does not simply disagree but steps over the line and makes claims that you are being irresponsible if you do not do as he/she suggests. They refer to the safety of your family and the threat to everyone on the road if you continue to use your chosen TV or hitch or whatever. I know that the proper thing to do in these situations is to move on and not react. It is difficult for me to do so. I do not want to give these folks an avenue to make such statements. I feel that they need to be held accountable somehow. Isn't this a solution to the disinhibition effect? If we simply move on, are we not a part of the bigger problem? I suppose the solution is to speak up but do it in a respectful way.

Thanks to all who post options and varying opinions. You make the forum worth reading.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:41 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by aftermath View Post

My issue here is when someone enters the discussion and does not simply disagree but steps over the line and makes claims that you are being irresponsible if you do not do as he/she suggests. They refer to the safety of your family and the threat to everyone on the road if you continue to use your chosen TV or hitch or whatever. I know that the proper thing to do in these situations is to move on and not react. It is difficult for me to do so. I do not want to give these folks an avenue to make such statements. I feel that they need to be held accountable somehow. Isn't this a solution to the disinhibition effect? If we simply move on, are we not a part of the bigger problem? I suppose the solution is to speak up but do it in a respectful way.
IMO, it is important to speak up when you feel you must, but to pick your fights and not try to neutralize every extreme. That would be a fools errand, to quote my hubbie.

I feel most see extremists for what they are. It is also very difficult to get folks like this to back down or see what others see.


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Old 06-19-2013, 11:02 AM   #18
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Some topics bring out the passion. Ford vs. Chevy. Tastes great vs. less filling. Hitch brands. O'Brien's rank if you're a Star Trek fan. Religion. Linux, OS X, and Windows. The list goes on...
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:09 AM   #19
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Some topics bring out the passion. Ford vs. Chevy. Tastes great vs. less filling. Hitch brands. O'Brien's rank if you're a Star Trek fan. Religion. Linux, OS X, and Windows. The list goes on...
That's why politics and religion are the verboten topics on the Forums; in one case too many right answers, in the other no right answers. In fact, I don't even dare say which topic falls into which category, lest I stir up an argument!
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
I love the different opinions posted here. That is how I learn and boy have I learned a lot since joining. I find, on the most part, that this forum remains relatively civil especially compared to the other one I used to read.

My issue here is when someone enters the discussion and does not simply disagree but steps over the line and makes claims that you are being irresponsible if you do not do as he/she suggests. They refer to the safety of your family and the threat to everyone on the road if you continue to use your chosen TV or hitch or whatever. I know that the proper thing to do in these situations is to move on and not react. It is difficult for me to do so. I do not want to give these folks an avenue to make such statements. I feel that they need to be held accountable somehow. Isn't this a solution to the disinhibition effect? If we simply move on, are we not a part of the bigger problem? I suppose the solution is to speak up but do it in a respectful way.

Thanks to all who post options and varying opinions. You make the forum worth reading.
Nicely put.

I tend to fall into the group that doesn't like to let some of these sweeping statements go without some contrary comment, especially the ones that involve prophecies of doom. I do try to keep it civil, though, and even inject a bit of humour; that doesn't always work, of course, because strongly held beliefs don't allow much room for jokes, but I'll keep on trying
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:00 PM   #21
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Very thoughtful and insightful responses.

I'm wondering too if there is some value in exploring the consumer decision making process. Here are a couple links - one an informal blog, the other from a professor at Babson College.

Both would suggest the starting point is to really know what you're trying to accomplish - what specifically is the NEED. This could also contribute to the "war of words" if 2 people are talking about the purchase of a "widget" but for person A the widget meets a price need and for person B the widget meets a quality need. A and B argue about the widget, but in their heads, it might as well be apples and rocks.

Still noodling - very much appreciate your insights!



Blog:
http://www.apreche.net/how-to-make-m...ing-decisions/

Babson:
http://faculty.babson.edu/isaacson/M...cons/cons1.doc
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:43 PM   #22
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....there is enormous value in diversity. Unfortunately, that word has now taken on the connotation of race, gender, ethnicity. Fact is, we are all different....the way we take in information, process it, communicate it. And I think we all know that conflict is an inevitable consequence of diversity. Some conflict is easily resolved....but when it gets to values then the situation is very different. One could make a pretty strong case that trying to change someone else's values is nigh onto impossible. And that's when AVOIDANCE is the most appropriate way to deal with it. A lesson that our State and Defense Departments keep relearning, I might add.
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:04 PM   #23
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enthusiasts post enthusiastically.

i'm not sure that Airstreaming couldn't be classified as a religion or a political party!
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:49 PM   #24
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There's also the simple fact that when communicating through the written word alone and not in person we do not have the benefit of facial expression, intonation and body language to help transfer meaning and intent. I am sometimes appalled by the apparent curtness and sometimes downright rudeness of some posts. I suspect (and hope) that it's not usually intentional, and if we were speaking in person there would not be an issue. It's an interesting phenomenon that one experiences in email messages, forums like this, and a few other forms of communication where only the written aspect of language is available for interpretation. It's also very easy for actually intent to be misconstrued when one is attempting humor, satire or "leg-pulling" ... How you say it is nearly as important to what you are saying ... and sometimes we forget that.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:07 PM   #25
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What a refreshing thread. Nuvite, you thought people are less inclined to, like, pick fights now (and that there seems to be less traffic) but I wonder if part of it is that online forums are so new, as all communication online, relatively, that we're learning boundaries- we're having to make up rules for a form of interaction with others that didn't exist ten years ago. I find I'm much more in contact with people who I don't share the same view with, and I learned to be more careful before hitting "send". Also, I have to imagine we're forced to play nice, and maybe as a result read and digest, most of us, what others are typing. Just rambling, but I thought it was an interesting topic and the changes that the internet has brought us culturally I find fascinating.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:19 PM   #26
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I find that a lot of the more strident champions of this or that are folks who went big; in size, or cost, or complexity. Almost as if they consider those who do not operate with 200% capacity margins or who have found a simple solution to a particular problem are, at best, simpletons or, at worst, criminally negligent.

After awhile, you just know what subjects are going to turn acrid and then it is easy to turn one's attention elsewhere.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:42 AM   #27
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A few years back, my Pop came by. He just had to tell me, "You better tell your son to do ... or you will lose them!"

I replied, "Pop, they are United States Marines, fully grown men and I treat them as such. All I can really do, when the time is right, to ask "Have you thought of this.. or that... do you have certain details.. if they have learned well from us, and from life, they will have the information. After that, the decision is theirs.. whether I lose them or not is not up to me..... but I can say.. "wow, I know THAT is gonna hurt... have fun!"

Similar thoughts here. I can offer my 'perspectives' and thoughts... but, it is up to those who read and assimilate the info to make the decision... even if it will hurt... it's up to them and it costs nothing to watch the results.

That is why I share my "you won't believe what happened" moments.... folks can, as I say, "lose the lumps, not the lesson"... and when I learn I was wrong, I accept it... it's mine after all.. I earned the good and the bad....in most cases.

So, in closing, i've decided/learned the lesson and lost the lumps.... to just let some things 'roll off'... and choose to say, "they really are trying to help"...then just let it go...

Now, if someone really is a snarky person, that quickly becomes evident, too. So, I minimize interaction. Discretion is the better part of valor after all.

And, really, we are talking about camping trailers, things which must be respected and properly handled... but, in the end, I don't plan to be buried in my AS or take it with me...
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:43 AM   #28
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Everyone is entitled to their opinions........just not their own facts! I forget what politician coined that phrase, but it sums up your point very well.

I have often found that some folks will challenge anything that is not within their view of how something should work or the products that they use.....simply based on their usage of said product. When trying to inject research, knowledge, professional training/experience and education into the mix, one is sometimes chastised or berated for it. I admire most DIY folks for tackling the complex projects that they do, but quite often the experience of one installation will not trump the experience gained from many installations done professionally.

I have experienced this several times on these Forums, with the end result being my decreased participation or outright self-imposed posting boycott for a time. That is probably the reason that the 'ignore' lists exist here. There are several entries on my 'ignore' list (they will stay private) for folks that often post in an argumentative or non-friendly way with 'opinions' that they formed while sleeping at their local Holiday Inn last night. I use Private Messaging quite often for my correspondence with members as a courtesy to that member, especially if my reply is diametrically opposed to theirs. I believe that this should be a private matter and not something done on the open Forums.

The free exchange of information and experience here is valuable to all. I have learned many things from posts in areas where I am not as proficient as I would like to be. Life is about learning, and one is never too old or too knowledgeable to learn something new every day.
I would just be repeating what Lewster said. He said it well I think.
I also agree with Nuvite F, the amount of traffic is way down. It is as if the vocal ones were sued into silence.
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