Civil Forfeiture Law

[Hittenstiehl]

Oksy...

So how about we discuss the merits of paying with cash, carrying cash safely, carrying cc cards and safely using them on the road. That's actually a worthy topic that lots of people have experience with.

Let's not speculate on 3rd party stories involving seizures when there is usually another part of the story.

[Lily&Me]

And where, still, is a single instance of RV's being unreasonably stopped, and cash taken?


Maggie

[aftermath]

Look, I refuse to live in a conspiracy world. These things probably do happen but with over 300M residents I doubt you could find many examples. We are entering a new time in our country and my guess would be that, if anything, these "rights" of law enforcement organizations will increase.

Back to the OP. Be aware and act accordingly. There is no reason to carry large sums of cash on you. A few hundred bucks will not get confiscated. Replenish your supply at ATMs along the way if you want to take advantage of the cash savings at pumps. Don't do or carry drugs and obey the traffic laws. And.....stop reading the net. You can spend hours on this as you claim you have and still read contrived or, at best, half truth stories.

[Hittenstiehl]

BWPaint

If you are carrying someone else's controlled substance narcotic, Xanax, that would be a crime. It would also likely be a felony and your cash likely confiscated. So yes it's related to the stop.

If you were found guilty of that crime yes your cash might be kept related to a drug crime asset forfeiture.

[DMP54]

Points taken. Don't carry tens of thousands of dollars or other peoples' Rx, most especially narcotics. Not necessary, ever.

[bwpaint]

Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl

BWPaint



If you were found guilty of that crime yes your cash might be kept related to a drug crime asset forfeiture.

As I stated the charges were dismissed, so how is this relevant.

[CDONA]

So if I'm carrying say $7k in cash to buy a vintage motorcycle when I find one, in a safe.
I have a credit union account with very few branches, I mostly get cash at grocery stores & Wmart, $100. over purchase.
I do have access to shared branches of certain credit unions, usually one in a county. A shared branch has the computer ability to access my account. Other branches do not, just "shared"
I can get up to $300 per day, at a shared branch and make deposits.
Just where could I acquire $7k cash from my account while traveling full time?
Create a law so I can steal it just like the cops?
Why is cash against the law, it says right on the bill "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

[featherbedder]

Originally Posted by DMP54

Points taken. Don't carry tens of thousands of dollars or other peoples' Rx, most especially narcotics. Not necessary, ever.

How will I get wifes prescrip. home from phar. if illegal to have in my posession When needed and she cannot get to phar.? Or my son that is over the road driver and has legal scrips. for usage in that profession when not avble. to pick up?

[DMP54]

Originally Posted by featherbedder

How will I get wifes prescrip. home from phar. if illegal to have in my posession When needed and she cannot get to phar.?

I don't know...maybe keep the bottle in the stapled bag from the pharm. Come on peeps, let common sense rule

[Phoenix]

We use our COSTCO VISA exclusively while traveling, due to the rewards/rebate program. For example, when purchasing gasoline (currently about $2.00 per gallon in the Phoenix area), we get a 4% rebate on fuel purchases (up to $7,000 per year). Plus, if we buy gas at Flying J or Pilot using our Good Sam discount, we get an additional three cents off per gallon, for a total discount of 11 cents per gallon. However, one should note that Costco and VISA rebates are paid annually, after the first of the year, while the Good Sam/Flying J/Pilot discount is applied at the pump.

When traveling, we carry a little cash, but not much. We are credit union members, so it's easy to get fee-free ATM withdrawals and "shared branching services" at most credit unions, which treat us like local members.

Click link to see if your credit union is a CO-OP Network participant, and for additional details and participating credit union locations: CO-OP Credit Union Network

[AWCHIEF]

At the most when traveling I carry a couple of hundred in cash for emergencies. I am a points hound and prefer to use my Carnival MasterCard. I have had three free cruises from points and will have enough for another soon. Also a federal credit union member and easily get no fee cash almost anywhere if necessary.

[WayneG]

Again side tracking from the OP a bit:
One more hint, traveling in a RV or in the family car or even on bicycle or walking.
If you have prescription drugs on you and they are not in the original bottle, you can be looking at a very long explanation in front of you, especially if you have a anal cop confronting you.
It may be easier in different states, but always travel with the meds in the original bottle or at least have the bottle handy.
Many folks use the 7 day med dispenser to remind us of what we have taken or not, but if you cant prove what the drug in it are or if you should have them, you may have a problem

[featherbedder]

Originally Posted by DMP54

I don't know...maybe keep the bottle in the stapled bag from the pharm. Come on peeps, let common sense rule

This not common sense when overzel. cops don't use any sense as we have several our area so don't even sneeze or you've had it, such as hap. to #2 son for not getting smog checked for 2 days past deadline going to jail for 7 hrs. pu. towed when 3 doors from home and several people would drive to his house, including me and his friend that lived 6 doors away and 5 yr. old at home waiting w/sitter that was on schedule to leave. These people were threatened with arrest for interference with dep. sheriff. There were several thousand $ electronic testing equip. on seat, would not let any one take after he gave per. And fine of $74.00 that I had to pay to get him out of jail plus towing charge of $75.00, and didn't even hook up. So where is common sense? NO all police are not like this person, bottom line she is no longer w/sheriffs dept. and new sheriff that has common sense and fair about all matters. I won't go into but past sheriff no longer, to many things became known.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

And where, still, is a single instance of RV's being unreasonably stopped, and cash taken?


Maggie

Here:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/ne...lights-concern

Was the guy guilty? I would give him the benefit of the doubt because no drugs were found during the search, and the police had a drug dog, so if there was one tiny leaf fragment or pill anywhere in that whole rig, they would have found it.

And notice how the police willfully conspired to get him on the second stop after finding that they had no legal rights to do it at the first stop - that is suspicious to me. "The dog alerted" overrode his legal right to privacy that he otherwise could claim.

Well, shoot - I can't tell you whether a drug dog would alert to my rig. I don't smell anything, but for all I know the first owner toked up a storm in there and a dog's nose might be sensitive enough to detect the residue two years after the fact.

It's a rare scenario, but it's possible. And there is little doubt in my mind that civil forfeiture is being abused, maybe not so much among the RV crowd, but it is an issue of concern, one that is scheduled to be addressed during Texas' upcoming legislative session (article here).

[DMP54]

Originally Posted by featherbedder

This not common sense when overzel. cops don't use any sense as we have several our area so don't even sneeze or you've had it, such as hap. to #2 son for not getting smog checked for 2 days past deadline going to jail for 7 hrs. pu. towed when 3 doors from home and several people would drive to his house, including me and his friend that lived 6 doors away and 5 yr. old at home waiting w/sitter that was on schedule to leave. These people were threatened with arrest for interference with dep. sheriff. There were several thousand $ electronic testing equip. on seat, would not let any one take after he gave per. And fine of $74.00 that I had to pay to get him out of jail plus towing charge of $75.00, and didn't even hook up. So where is common sense? NO all police are not like this person, bottom line she is no longer w/sheriffs dept. and new sheriff that has common sense and fair about all matters. I won't go into but past sheriff no longer, to many things became known.

Very frustrating to feel like you or loved ones have been wronged. Good luck...

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Here:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/ne...lights-concern

Was the guy guilty? I would give him the benefit of the doubt because no drugs were found during the search, and the police had a drug dog, so if there was one tiny leaf fragment or pill anywhere in that whole rig, they would have found it.

And notice how the police willfully conspired to get him on the second stop after finding that they had no legal rights to do it at the first stop - that is suspicious to me. "The dog alerted" overrode his legal right to privacy that he otherwise could claim.

Well, shoot - I can't tell you whether a drug dog would alert to my rig. I don't smell anything, but for all I know the first owner toked up a storm in there and a dog's nose might be sensitive enough to detect the residue two years after the fact.

It's a rare scenario, but it's possible. And there is little doubt in my mind that civil forfeiture is being abused, maybe not so much among the RV crowd, but it is an issue of concern, one that is scheduled to be addressed during Texas' upcoming legislative session (article here).

Okay, this incident happened in 2013, and $167,000 in cash was found hidden in various places inside the RV.

Whether the stop was right or wrong, the LEA's antennae over-active or right on target, the premise that civil forfeiture is a problem for RV'ers just doesn't hold water, in my opinion.

I'm also aware of RV's being used on occasion as meth labs...


Maggie

[InterBlog]

People do strange things for their own reasons - that's why we have due process. The guy was traveling with $167,000 but that's not a crime - we still have many people in our population who refuse to trust banks and who stuff their life savings in mattresses (I had one extended family member who was rumored to have buried his money - ALL of it). The police tape also made reference to that driver not being the registered owner of the rig, so how was he supposed to know what the registered owner, or the owner before that, may have done in there in the way of recreational drugs?

There may be other cases involving RVs. I stopped at the first one that Google pulled up.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

I would personally like to see you cite some credible examples of this law "now being abused all over the country", "Black Asphalt" trainings, and particularly how those may be currently applied to and affecting RV'ers.

Personally, if I were carrying large amounts of cash, I certainly wouldn't advertise that anywhere.

I know that large amounts of otherwise unexplainable cash, and expensive vehicles, are routinely seized by LEA in drug stops, but have never once heard of random stops of RV'ers resulting in this kind of search and seizure.

There is a fair amount of what I consider generally unfounded fear of unknown others out there already on these Forums, and I would hate to see that transferred on to LEA without serious substantiation....and which it would seem we would be somewhat aware of thru news reports.

Let's see some facts to back up these claims, please.


Maggie

Lily, I realize that your late husband was a law enforcement officer and you no doubt have many friends in that field, but the fact is that the civil forfeiture laws have been abused many times and in many jurisdictions.

First, everyone needs to understand that that the civil forfeiture law allows law enforcement to confiscate--and KEEP--any property believed to be the proceeds of a criminal enterprise without charging--or even arresting--the individual from whom it was confiscated. It is incumbent on the victim to sue in civil court (hence the term "civil forfeiture") to get his property back. This has proven to be very profitable to various governments and some have been unable to resist.

The libertarian Cato Institute has done a lot of studies on the abuses of civil forfeiture. Here's a link to 227 of them:

https://find.cato.org/search?q=civil...web_collection

[Lily&Me]

I understand all of those issues, Nuvite, tho my husband was not LEA and I am not defending LEA actions...what I'm saying is RV'ers do not generally need to fear being stopped, asked how much cash they have, and having it unreasonably taken.

That's what started this discussion...whether one carried cash for gas and other purchases when traveling, and whether that might be threatened by police seizure.

In general, the response still seems to be...NO.

Maggie

[streaminwild]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

Still, streaminwild....you are relating this to traveling in an RV, and whether to carry cash for necessary purchases without fear of being stopped, apparently asked how much cash you are carrying, and having it taken from you.

I don't believe that is a reasonable fear, nor one grounded in facts.

Cite a fact, please, preferably a number of them...of an RV'er, stopped for no apparent reason, whose cash was seized.


Maggie

Maggie, One of the occurrences I read, involved a motocross racer traveling in his motorhome to a race. Looking for webpage now. After the almost financial collapse of 2007, I tried to get my cash out of bank, the bank would only give me 1,500 per day. It took me 2 months to get most of it out. Then, I wanted to open a safe deposit box to store the cash...that's illegal. It's their money until you take it out.