Carbon Fiber Travel Trailer

[Ag&Au]

I though this might be interesting to some of you out there. I'm going to watch and see how it progresses.

Ken

[Wayward]

It looks interesting. I hope they shake things up.

We primarily see our Airstream as the ideal way to travel - so I really like their approach of "Luxury Travel".

I did get a chuckle out of this in one of their press releases:

"CR/CR5 pricing is expected to start from around $160,000MSRP to over $500,000MSRP for custom models. Fuel economy in tow will improve by as much as 100 percent, and much of the product is recyclable"

I'm living the capitalist dream and got me an ultra cool, over the top, half million dollar, fossil fuel digesting RV! But wait! I really am green. Its recyclable.

[NCstreamer]

These are the same people that made Earthbound RV. The company went bankrupt; left many bills unpaid and several people stuck with a bad product.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by NCstreamer

These are the same people that made Earthbound RV. The company went bankrupt; left many bills unpaid and several people stuck with a bad product.

I'm curious how you know this. I can not find any of the same names mentioned.

Ken

[Snaken49]

This an interesting article about EarthBound RV

Assets of Earthbound RV to be sold at auction (Photos) - National RVing | Examiner.com


It says their assets were sold at auction on Jan. 15, 2014 for defaulting on a $2M loan, interest payments. The designs look very similar.

[Ag&Au]

Similar shapes don't make it the same people. I would be interested in a real connection between the two, if there is one. According to what I read, the principles in earthbound even had their homes confiscated. I imagine it would be a little difficult to find someone to financially back them again.

So unless someone can show a connection, could we just discuss the trailer, or the concept of carbon fiber trailers.

If we continue to pursue a connection, and one does not exist, I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing that is libel.

Ken

[NCstreamer]

This comes straight from www.rvbusiness.com; same CEO - Charles Hoefer.

"Hoefer’s last job was CEO of Earthbound RV in Marion. His father moved the company there in 2010 after starting it a year earlier near Elkhart. The city backed a $2 million bank loan to lure the business.
But the company failed and officially shut down in January. The city had to pay off almost all the debt."

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

Similar shapes don't make it the same people. I would be interested in a real connection between the two, if there is one. According to what I read, the principles in earthbound even had their homes confiscated. I imagine it would be a little difficult to find someone to financially back them again. So unless someone can show a connection, could we just discuss the trailer, or the concept of carbon fiber trailers. If we continue to pursue a connection, and one does not exist, I'm no lawyer, but I'm guessing that is libel. Ken

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by NCstreamer

This comes straight from www.rvbusiness.com; same CEO - Charles Hoefer.

"Hoefer’s last job was CEO of Earthbound RV in Marion. His father moved the company there in 2010 after starting it a year earlier near Elkhart. The city backed a $2 million bank loan to lure the business.
But the company failed and officially shut down in January. The city had to pay off almost all the debt."

Ok, here is the link to the full article.

Charles Hoefer Seeking Fresh Slate With Startup | RV Business


Ken

[NCstreamer]

At the end they tried the same strategy with Earthbound; introducing $150000+ travel trailers. The way it went down with Earthbound, I would advise everyone to stay away from the Hoefers. ;-)

[Ag&Au]

The whole article from RV business is an interesting read. It sounds like at least eventually the intended market is going to be China. Whoever thought we would hear about companies being started in the US to build stuff for the rich people in China.

"A lot of the global strategy that Ding will oversee hinges on Global Caravan’s ability to tap markets that don’t exist today.
China will be key because of its aging population and growing wealth, Ding said.
The Chinese “have plenty of money in their hands at their disposal,” he said. “But they also have plenty of time. The lifestyle in China is rapidly changing."

Ken

Maybe someday there will be a guy named "Wing Byng" leading Chinese "Global Caravan" caravans across the US observing the local peasant's life style.

[idroba]

"The debut product, dubbed the CR-1, would also be the first to use carbon fiber rather than something more common such as aluminum. A lighter weight is supposed to cut fuel consumption in half.
Among other luxuries: master bathrooms with oversized showers, full-height closets, and washers and dryers. Hoefer compared the interiors to the inside of a luxury yacht."


Yea, right. Lets use carbon fiber and then put in washers and dryers. That will sure save weight! Cut fuel consumption in half? Vapor ware. You can say or claim anything, but the aerodynamics of any trailer, including Airstreams, does much to determine fuel efficiency.

[Ag&Au]

Does anyone know approximately what the increase in cost is to fabricate something out of carbon fiber rather than aluminum?

Is carbon fiber laid in molds like fiberglass?

Ken

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

Does anyone know approximately what the increase in cost is to fabricate something out of carbon fiber rather than aluminum?

Is carbon fiber laid in molds like fiberglass?

Ken

Production of carbon fibre has been very expensive. BMW is trying to change that with their i3, in testing now. Here is one article comparing cost of manufacturing for steel, aluminum, and carbon fibre in vehicle applications:

BMW Makes Lone Shift to Carbon Fiber to Gain Auto Edge - Bloomberg

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by jcl

Production of carbon fibre has been very expensive. BMW is trying to change that with their i3, in testing now. Here is one article comparing cost of manufacturing for steel, aluminum, and carbon fibre in vehicle applications:

BMW Makes Lone Shift to Carbon Fiber to Gain Auto Edge - Bloomberg

Very educational article.


Thanks,

Ken

[Alphonse]

Carbon fiber is expensive to use and fabricate from. You have to cure the resin for it in ovens, typically in a vacuum bag, and those that do it typically accept and expect some rework associated with it. So some good ol' boys who went bust before aren't likely going to have a great deal of success coming out of the blocks unless they have a lot of money to pay some world class manufacturers to make the panels for them.

[PharmGeek]

I would be curious....but I think using carbon fiber would constitute massive cost increases.....I wonder how much of "usual materials" they will displace with carbon fiber...

The mere cost of carbon fiber construction would seemingly make this significantly spendy even compared to new airstream...possibly by large margins depending on the model/length.

How do you get 100% savings in fuel economy in tow? with trucks and suv's, you would need to first establish that pulling a standard trailer, say an airstream, of the same length would drop fuel consumption by at least half...then what, if you swap out for this CF type you get all of it back as if there is no trailer there? Seems odd to establish that a trailer could improve fuel efficiency by 100%....

[Alphonse]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

I would be curious........

How do you get 100% savings in fuel economy in tow? with trucks and suv's, you would need to first establish that pulling a standard trailer, say an airstream, of the same length would drop fuel consumption by at least half...then what, if you swap out for this CF type you get all of it back as if there is no trailer there? Seems odd to establish that a trailer could improve fuel efficiency by 100%....

Ellery,
Appears they are full of propaganda and hype. I sincerely hope some small community doesn't fall for it again and put up a bunch of economic development money like Marion, Ohio did on the previous venture hoping for jobs and prosperity! It is often quite sad how some small towns or a community start to fall all over themselves and compete for companies like that without the appropriate due diligence or safeguards in place. It is an indicator of the poor economic times we are in.

But oh wait, our government says we are growing jobs and all is well. I forgot!

[Aerowood]

I've worked with both Aluminum and Carbon Fiber in the aviation industry. The strength to weigh ratio of carbon over alum is incredible, thats the biggest advantage. Aluminum IMHO wins hands down in fabrication and repairability. The costs alone of the heat activated prepregs with short shelf lifes would send me running away, if some of you think aluminum is difficult to work with and repair, then you are in for some big surprises with the Carbon Fiber

[PharmGeek]

I only know a little with CF as it relates to camera tripods...

Those CF tripods are quite a bit lighter and they are quite strong...really impressive stuff.

but then there is the price...160 bucks for a decent quality manfrotto aluminum tripod...same one in carbon fiber is over double the price as I recall....and that would seemingly be even more simple as compared to using it to make a trailer...

When you scratch the finish or damage a panel...I can presume it will end up being even more costly than replacing an aluminum panel $$$$$

I suppose it *could* be that they are going for a smaller wealthier subset of the market....lol

Having said all that, I try and keep an open mind....but I am a skeptic.

My wife and I looked close at those earthbound ones at one point...was the one called an "element"...kind of a cool design...company fizzled out....I was on that forum (yahoo group) for a short while following some of the comments..

[Tater]

I don't know much about CF other than on some vehicles I own and that is they have to be protected from UV and if exposed to UV the clear coat used to protect CF from UV rays is astronomical. CF can be painted and if not exposed should do well in sunlight. At this point I believe CF is more of a material for the future as it becomes more readily used in vehicles. I would have no idea how CF is repaired whenever there is damage as there would most assuredly would be.