Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-16-2007, 07:45 AM   #1
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Calling all network admins Part 2

Ok, second part:

You have an existing CAT 5 cable plant that represents about 85-90% of your entire deployed plant. The workstations you currently buy are all capable and ready to deal with gigabit to the desktop, and your network gear is or soon will be ready to deliver gigabit to the desktop, if only your cable plant could support it. You've done testing and found that for the most part your CAT 5 deployment will not carrry the signal to gigabit speeds. So here is the question, knowing you have to replace the cable plant within your buildings:

1) Do you save money and simply replace to CAT5e so that the cable plant can fully support gig to the desktop?

--OR--

2) Would you spend slightly more money and put in a CAT6a solution that would have the certified potential of carring signals up to 10 gig?

In researching this, I have found the price of the cable to be a bit more expensive, but I've also found that the biggest cost to all this is the labor.

So what would you do?
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 07:50 AM   #2
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,193
Eric, if you have the budget, go with the CAT6a. Network speeds will only increase as time goes on, and you will save money over time by not having to upgrade twice. You will also look like a far-seeing genius to the kids that will be using it.
__________________

__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 07:51 AM   #3
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
lewster's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples, FL , Hood River, OR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,282
Twink,

A good friend of mine who does high-end specialty wiring in VERY expensive homes once told me (with his thick German accent) 'viring is cheep, de labor is not! Don't vorry about de vire costs and always use de best!'

Hope this helps in your decision.
__________________
Lew Farber...ABYC Certified Master Marine Electrician...RVIA Certified Master Tech ...AM Solar Authorized Installation Center...AIRSTREAM Solar & Electrical Specialist...Micro Air 'Easy Start' Sales and Installations
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 09:31 AM   #4
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
2005 22' Interstate
Afton , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 226
Good advice, Lew
regards
__________________
herrgirdner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 09:42 AM   #5
Still Working
 
smily's Avatar
 
1994 36' Classic 36
North Charleston , South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,651
Images: 19
Cat6

The minumum standard for the Air Force is Cat 6 whereas the Navy utilizes Cat 5e. The cost of Cat 6 is considerbaly higher in many aspects. Not only do you need the high dollar cabling but the end components are VERY expensive. Installation is not so much different but testing criteria is much more stringent hence costing more.
Installing cabling more than once, (read upgrade) is always going to be additional cost, obviously. Why pay more than once for increased throughput demands?

One could speculate that a fiber optic solution is the only "meets all upgrades" approach. Fiber to the desktop is getting more and more common everyday. A number of years ago some Engineers had the foresight and realized that copper soulutions are riddled with high overhead and subject to upgrades approximatley every ten years (if not less). These Engineers chose a fiber optic to the desktop solution years ago. The impact was the expensive NIC cards but the infrastructure has not required any change. One other drawback to Fiber Optic NICs is that many users like to interface with third party networks which are typically copper oriented. I have engineered and implemented fiber to the desktop solutions for many government agencies and the one thing that has been consistant is that network throughput requirements continually increase, whereas the properties of a fiber optic infrastructure meets the increase every time.

Go with fiber.....
__________________
smily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 10:28 AM   #6
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Yea, I thought about the fiber bit, but the reality is in our business, we work with over 2200 children in an elementary school setting. Fiber to the desktop isn't practical at this point, even though it's far superior to any copper plant I could install. It may the case where the ancillary cost of fiber (patch, NIC, etc) make it more reasonable, but the numbers are too close at this point, and in our case buying machines like Intel based iMacs, adding NICs isn't a simple endevor.

So, I love the fiber idea, actually have about 20 classrooms with fiber in them that was pulled many years ago...have never used it....yet.

For now, the choice is CAT5e (1gbs standard) or CAT6A (10gbs standard). CAT6 won't do 10gbs....from what I understand it's a hybrid CAT5e.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 10:37 AM   #7
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
2005 22' Interstate
Afton , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 226
I do agree that the B/W of a fiber installation is outstanding, and if left undisturbed, will outlast and endure over copper. However, and ahem.
With 2200 active children exploring the F/O connectors, I could imagine a full-time employee running around just redoing them. When I was terminating the stuff, we used exoxy to cement the fiber to the little middle rod, and then cleaved it, and then polished it to a fare thee well. I understand that technology has obsoleted that procedure, thank God.
I read one comment where a test bed was recommended. Not a bad idea.
regards
__________________
herrgirdner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 10:46 AM   #8
More than one rivet loose
 
thecatsandi's Avatar

 
Currently Looking...
Keymar , Maryland
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,754
Go with the highest bandwidth copper available. The wire is cheap. The labor is expensive. Wired a whole building with cat 5e about 10 years ago.
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball

Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud

thecatsandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 11:05 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Westfalia's Avatar
 
2008 27' International CCD FB
Boerne, TX / , Evergreen, CO
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 904
Images: 35
Send a message via AIM to Westfalia Send a message via Skype™ to Westfalia
I don't see the advantage to running a 10gbps capable link to your clients if the receiving client can't process 10gbps worth of data. As it is, 1gbps connections are hardly utilized to their fullest potential in a end client situation, usually topping off at 200-400mbps in real world situations.

Where a 10gbps link is going to be useful in is backbone networks or for high throughput server links where the hardware had been built to handle this kind of link.

So, I would run Cat-5e and max at 1gpbs for your clients. You could always drop a line or two of Cat-6 in each location.
__________________
Chris and Christina- Boerne, TX / Evergreen, CO - TAC TX-7
2008 27'FB Int'l Signature CCD
Westfalia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 12:59 PM   #10
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
I don't see the need today either, but then again, I also didn't think in less than 5 years we'd be at 1gbs to the desktop, nor did I think I'd see some workstations start to appear that were diskless on the horizon where the weakest link, the hard drive, might not be an issue. I guess part of my current thinking is that you put in stuff like fiber and CAT6a, not so much for what you can think of, but for what you can't and if the costs are not too far from what say a CAT5e might be.......

Thanks for all the comment and insights, I appreciate everyone's thoughts!
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 03:27 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
Westfalia's Avatar
 
2008 27' International CCD FB
Boerne, TX / , Evergreen, CO
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 904
Images: 35
Send a message via AIM to Westfalia Send a message via Skype™ to Westfalia
Your points about 'future proofing' are completely valid. However, for the next five years, I don't see links higher than 1 gbps to the end-client becoming the norm for a number of reasons, most namely due to hard disk speed. For the most part, disk seek and R/W speeds have only slightly improved over yester-years PATA-100. There will be no way to store and process 10gpbs of data on the receiving end even if you can jam that much down the pipe. Also, take into account that most of the cheaper computer use an on-board NIC (MacMini included). Unlike a dedicated NIC card, The faster link chews up more processor power than the slower link. It is doubtful (to me at least) that the budget computer will move to dedicated processor NICs in the future due to cost and I don't think that any budget computer made in the next five years will have to processing power to move 10gbps. Then again, smarter people than me have been wrong about these thing before!

I guess the ultimate deciding factor is cost: what is the price differential between Cat5e and Cat6 installed for this job?
__________________
Chris and Christina- Boerne, TX / Evergreen, CO - TAC TX-7
2008 27'FB Int'l Signature CCD
Westfalia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 07:15 PM   #12
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Ok, so let's play the bit per byte game. 1gbs is about 112megabytes. Currently there are disks in some configs that do some serious throughput. We've been assuming that all traffic would be disk based, but what if the machines evenutally in 5 years start not to have hard drives, or that the multimedia streams are not directly connected to the hard drive but the web or other internal streaming resources. It is true that the current 1gbs is the limit, but say 10 years from now, which if done right is hopefully the average cable plant life that isn't the case.

Trust me, I like the next person wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest bang for the buck...but is CAT5e the way, cause even if data gets to 5gbs and diskless hard drives happen, and the sun still comes up tomrrow, is it really worth spending the labor costs to put 5e in?

I'm don't totally disagree, and clearly can't tell what beyond 5 years will bring, but I have a hunch it may be more than the current 1gbs to the desktop.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 09:59 PM   #13
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Burien , Washington
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 74
Wow, I usually read these threads at work when talking with fellow broadcast engineers. I'm enjoying this.

With 2200 elementry school student, and the demands of multimedia in the future, perhaps CAT6a would give you beyond 5 years life out of your infrastructure. Labor cost and cabling cost will go up in 5 years, that is for sure. So, if you can get more life out of your cabling, you might be ahead of the curve in the long run. ( 10 years maybe )

I have to agree with you though, who knows what the standard will be 5 years from now. It may be with fiber, and cost of fiber NICs will be affordable like the NICs of today.

Sam
__________________
SRoffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2007, 10:02 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
2005 30' Classic
... , ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 511
Images: 12
Why not CAT6e? It's stranded, like CAT5e, but has the higher through-put.
__________________

__________________
GetOutDoors is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP PART NEEDED! Aluminum Termination Cap... InsideOut Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 46 03-20-2006 07:08 AM
Dish Network vs Direct TV gwsullivan Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 36 01-17-2005 03:49 PM
Skylight part question ColtSAA45 Roof Vents, Skylights & Fans 3 04-22-2004 09:05 PM
What is the MOST you have paid for an AIR STREAM part overlander Our Community 64 11-19-2002 06:15 PM
Skinner air valve part # benbailey Airstream Motorhome Forums 1 10-19-2002 10:03 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.