Call in campaign against OIL PRICES

[bfred]

Lets all start a call in campaign to our respective Representatives and Senators in D.C. about these oil prices. It is the Amercan commodity traders that are causing these oil prices to be what they are and not the the folks in the Middle East. The traders have drove the price up to hedge their profits because of the devaluation of the dollar. Our Gov't can do something about it if they get the political pressure from us. Forget about adding new taxes to the oil companies profit, just lower the price of gas and fuel so we RV'ers can get some enjoyment out of our investment.

[jcanavera]

This thread has the potential to become very controversial and political in nature. The moderators would like to remind everyone to avoid political discussions in this thread, as it violates our forum rules.
This thread will remain open providing the discussion does not turn into political party bashing, or personal attacks. If this does happen, the offending post(s) will be removed, and the thread closed permanently.

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[Shacksman]

A good idea would be to boycot 2 brands completly, until they have to lower their prices to get business. This would cause the others to lower theirs to compete.
Sounds good on paper but hard to get enough people to go along at the same time.

[ArtStream]

Originally Posted by bfred

just lower the price of gas and fuel so we RV'ers can get some enjoyment out of our investment.

I think the commodity traders would argue the same thing!

"Just trying to get some profit out of our investment"

Michael

[elbundi]

im hoping on attending a rally or two this season but not sure i can get the 3rd mortgage to pay for the gas!

a well respected economist spoke at my workplace today (Dr. Donald Ratajczak here at darton college). his commentary about the weaker dollar fuelling the rise in oil prices along with increased/competing demand from china and india, and the fact that fossilized fuel is becoming harder to find and more dangerous to extract from offshore rigs made good educational listening. with this increased consumption, the only way bring down the cost of travel is to address 'how' we travel and further develop 'proven' technologies. subsidising the oil industry is not going to solve the problem no matter how you spin it politically.

[the reason i remain loyal to airforums, aside from aluminatis, the wealth of information and numerous other reasons, are for it's rules on topics that are political in nature. bi partisan views quickly get 'IGNORED']

so, what am i to do with a thirsty big block 454? turn it into a hybrid that drinks sugar beet ethenol and carries 2 tons of lithium ion batteries. drive gingerly. cry. sell up and buy a push-iron and tent!

great resource Bloomberg.com

[eubank]

I agree that the issue is not a supply and demand thing in the gross sense, but it certainly is in a smaller sense: It seems that the folks on this side of the lake have figured out how to measure how much oil (gas, etc) is being used and can adjust output in minute amounts; however, any small disruption (broken line, refinery retool, etc.; we've all heard the excuses) causes mild shortages. Combined with this is that oil is now a commodity on the market, subject to bidding and money-making euphoria, to facts about supply and demand, to rumors about supply and demand, and so forth.

It is hard to figure out how to "beat" a finely-tuned, market-driven system, but it can be done. Specifically, beating this kind of system involves manipulating the very condition that started the problem in the first place: supply and demand.

Suppose, for example, that you hold stock in a profitable and mandatory market area in which supply and demand are finely matched, with brief shortages on the supply side. What would you do if you heard (either rumor or fact) that the supply will soon outstrip demand? (Answer: Sell. Fast.)

Ok, so to control such a market involves manipulating supply and its asking price. If you could add, say, a million barrels of crude oil to the market on a daily basis at bargain-basement price (relatively speaking), what will happen in the market? You can imagine.

Of course, I'm thinking of the stored crude that the government keeps, but it would be a rather different use of it: Not using the crude for national security in some military sense, but rather using it to manipulate the market, also for national ecomonic security.

Yet there is the other side of this coin, too, a side that makes market manipulation less desirable: It is worthwhile remembering that the supply we currently have is in good measure available because of the high prices and the profitability of the business: Crude that was hitherto not worth extracting (e.g., the "sand oil" in Alberta) is now being processed like crazy.

Matters are indeed very complicated.

In the end, the folks for whom I have the most distain are the politicans and the so-called journalists of the 21st century. Have you heard any politicans raising the roof about it? Or have you heard the folks in the fourth estate giving anything more than lip service? I may have missed something (no surprise), but all I've heard is glossed-over silence.


Lynn

[jcanavera]

The question in my mind is whether there is enough refining capacity relative to the amount of oil is available. From what I'm hearing the amount of refined oil being imported in rising, a direct effect of the lack of refining capacity. So even if more oil is available, it can't be turned around in enough quantity by US refineries.

It's almost like someone figured out that by controlling what is available, they win, and there isn't a thing we can do about it because this whole economy is so oil dependent......and at this point I don't even think government knows how to deal with this. At least from the traditional means. We are sort of like a drug addict who is so hooked, he can't break the cycle.

Jack

[KeithC]

Here is just an observation.

Petro-chemical products, including gas and diesel, are global commodity items produced by a large number of nations around the world.

For years the world production capacity of petro-chemical products was matched to demand, demand mainly from 1st world countries such as Europe and the US, and there was a relatively steady price for gas and diesel.

Now, emerging markets such as India, China, and Pac rim countries, with billions and billions of people, have added to the current market demand for gas and diesel.

The supply of oil products has not increased at the same rate as demand. There is now an increased demand for gas and diesel and production has not kept pace. As such, the price for gas and diesel has increased.

It is true that the supply of oil can be limited and manipulated to a minor extent by some oil producing nations acting in concert, but their combined effect on the global oil market is not in porportion to the market effect of increased global demand by these new markets.

The US Congress can not lower the price of gas and diesel, aside from eleminating fuel taxes, for a sustained period of time, unless the US Congress can increase the supply of domestic US oil for domestic US use.

I, like most of you, have an Airstream trailer and I have to buy gas/diesel for my tow vehicle. I have sticker shock when filling up, but my Congressman can not fix it...unless he gives me his credit card.

[richinny]

it seems to me that if consumption is reduced, so will production. the result might just be that we pay more for less and the producers get paid more for what they produce.

i get the feeling that the government wants to reduce consumption now. it might help detroit sell more cars and such but who will need them when they're broke from food, fuel and housing cost increases.

it was interesting to read that none of the candidates want to pump crude from up north.

[centennialman]

I have been thinking about moving to the country and getting some horses. When I feel the urge to get out in the Airstream, all I will have to do is hitch up the horses and hit the road.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by centennialman

I have been thinking about moving to the country and getting some horses. When I feel the urge to get out in the Airstream, all I will have to do is hitch up the horses and hit the road.

It's already been discussed:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...eam-18042.html

[BillTex]

I am toying with the idea of towing with my bike...

Bill

[moosetags]

I guess this is the story of my life. I finally get the Airstream of my dreams and the big Suburban to pull it, and what happens? The price of gas doubles in the 2 years since I've had my Airstream. I finally have the time to travel to my heart's content and, all of a sudden, gas is $3.50 a gallon, and I get 10 mpg.

I am one of the very fortunate ones who can still afford to travel with my Airstream. It just upsets me that I feel that we are being exploited by commodity traders on big oil companies. The politicians do nothing because they don't care what we think. They don't have to care because we (the electorate) are so stupid that we elect or re-elect them anyway.

It absolutely amazes me that none of the presidential candidates, Democrat or Republican, is saying anything about this gas price thing. Here is a really major consideration of ALL voters, and the politicians don't even mention it. Am I missing something????

I feel better now that I have vented to someone other than Dudley, the cat. I guess we'll pack up Lucy and head to the Outback of Maine.

Brian

[Silvertwinkie]

I think that any letter or community action to show our displeasure of the oil prices are just not going to cut it. The governments have their hands full right now as most folks are cutting back on many things just pay for fuel, which by the way only adds to the overall costs of most things out there since nearly everything is delivered by truck, which as we know burns in most cases diesel, which is well over $4/gallon. Between housing and fuel, the economy is going to grind to a hault and pretty quickly. I just got 8 gallons of gas last night and it darn near cost me $25!

I blame the government across the board for this situation, and I share the blame with every state and federal politican as far back as the early 70s after the oil embargo. We all knew we were oil crack heads way back then, but after the spigot got turned back on, we totally forgot how addicted we were. We had 30 years to develop alternates, but the almighty dollar made it not cost effective to pursue other means and the governments over the past 30 years did nearly zero to help augment research and development. But, thank goodness the governments over the past 30 years gave incentives and substantial tax breaks to big oil.

Anyone see the movie who killed the electric car? We had a fairly good technology back in the early to mid 90s. Now, we have to wait about 2 years for a modified technology to that, which only recently just started.

Folks, the bottom line here is that we are reaping the fruits of all of our choices since the early 70s. Now we (not meaning we here on the forum) are in a hell fire hurry to find ways out of this mess. It's gonna get much worse before it gets any better. What we have here is the perfect storm and unlike past storms, there are no shovels or magic wands to get us out of this anytime soon, regardless of what actions we take, we still got to get where we are going and we all still gotta eat. The best thing we can do IMHO, is beat the speculators up on wall street, cut back on nearly everything until the economy is just so bad that major funds will need to be pumped into the econ and better state and federal incentives for alternate fuels and such to be really available to the masses at an affordable price. Then and only then, can I see gas/diesel/LP/Natural Gas/Oil drop as demand drops.

Two things I didn't mention here yet was the eco issues which of course is a whole 'nuther novel as is the fuel taxes we all pay on top of the high prices.

[bake315]

The analysts keep talking about tipping points, and prices keep blasting right through them. I really wonder what the actual tipping point is going to be, though I suspect that it will be some small measure of time beyond the point where private citizens have nearly all quit driving; I suspect things will really start to bind and seize when the trucking and other freight companies start having to shut down because they can no longer reconcile their operating costs in fuel with their rapidly increasing freight charges that companies are no longer able or willing to pay - because those companies no longer have the people willing to purchase their products - because the people are conserving what resources they have to pay for the bare essentials - the price of which has soared because the companies have had to raise their prices due to transporation and manufacturing costs... etc., etc.... It's a vicious, vicious cycle, and I don't believe simple conservation and increased efficiency standards are going to help much, if at all - as was previously mentioned the reponse would be simply to cut production to keep availability low and prices high.

I believe a breakdown of catastrophic proportions - from our own kitchen tables, to the country of origin, be it India, Taiwan, China, Indonesia - whatever - with shockwaves all the way back up the entire chain - which brings the whole show to a screeching halt, is going to have to occur. Unfortunately, this is going to take a lot longer than it did in the 70's because there are far more players in the game to be affected. Sort of like when we experience a natural disaster in the country now, and there are nothing left but pieces, and you're standing back at square one. The desire to try to insure that such devastation never occurs again is always present - and this is where conservation and efficiency can have a real effect - in the beginning. It's a lot harder to build smart on a flawed substructure than it is to start from scratch. I sure don't like the idea of global depression, but I truly believe it's where things will have to go before any meaningful improvements will take place.

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by richinny

it was interesting to read that none of the candidates want to pump crude from up north.

They may not want to, but it is already underway:

Oil pipeline barreling through scenic B.C. park

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by bake315

I sure don't like the idea of global depression, but I truly believe it's where things will have to go before any meaningful improvements will take place.

Well, similar to California where so say CARB, so say the nation....

If the US economy takes a major nose dive as all indicators show it is pointing in that direction, this will cause the global meltdown we're talking about. If consumers here cut back, all those neat little things we buy at Target, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc that are all made in China, guess who is gonna be next to feel the pinch. I think we've already seen the airlines jumping from the flaming building. When you see the trucking companies do it, I think we'll be well past the point of no return until we sink to the bottom like a rock.

As for the money we're suppose to get this spring from the fed, heck that won't even pay for 3 months of utilities and gasoline.

[crazylev]

Starting Monday, Winnebago will shut all production for one week, due to sales slowdown, lack of consumer confidence. This will affect most of the companies 3000 employees.

Maybe this should also be posted in the "Corrosion on AS" thread. Maybe AS will have more time to deal with the problems with it's current customer base.

Jonathan

[Jim & Susan]

Well, here’s a thought.

I wonder if anybody has studied regulating the hydrocarbon industry in a similar manner to the electric industry. Hear me out first.

Electricity is pretty cheap and prices have been pretty stable for years, at least in my part of the world. And this is despite the fact that hydrocarbons, in one form or another, are used to generate much of that electricity. Electric companies make a pretty good profit and employ lots of folks. Most of them are public companies (closely government regulated as opposed to government owned). Good situation all ‘round.

In other words, maybe we should change our thinking about hydrocarbons from not so much a commodity, but more along the lines of a PUBLIC UTILITY that can be closely regulated. In these days of extreme government control over most everything, I suspect that even the threat of something like this would send shock waves thru the industry and send prices down.

(In case you’re wondering, I’m the opposite of a socialist, but something has to be done or we won’t have an economy left in another year or two)

Jim

[AZ-JH]

Peak Oil is here and it's going to get a whole lot worse. Airstream will eventually see that there IS a demand for more lighter weight units. We are keeping in mind that $10 gal. gas may be on its way in less than five years, but yet still plan to buy an Airstream (just a lighter weight one).

Try to find a fresh, local food source, because the store shelves may someday be empty. Heck, we have a few chickens in our backyard. It's a small start.