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Old 11-02-2008, 12:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 85MH325 View Post
Herein lies the problem... what exactly does "buying American" mean these days?


To buy 100% American is probably impossible. Even products that appear to be American made may have components from overseas. Often the thing you need may not be produced in America at all. Can you buy an American made television? I don't know.

When I have a choice, I will select the product that, as I see it, benefits America the most. The fact that my purchase benefits an American is not the test. Many Americans work in America but for foriegn corporations. These corporations may employ many thousands of Americans. But, down the road these foriegn companies could or maybe already are spelling doom for many domestic manufacturers. To support them does not support our country as a hole or for the long term.

I understand that it may be you (the reader) or your neighbor or your local economy that depends on these foreign manufacturers and I'm sure you do a lot of your own sole searching. I've done my share - I'm a Chrysler dealer for goodness sake. During the DaimlerChrysler "merger" I considered Chysler an American company owned by a German company. What sense did that make? Not much! But at least the Chrysler side of the equation was still on this side of the globe -where it started as an American car company. Now Cerberus has brought it back where it belongs and I'd hate to see it end up in the hands of Nissan-Renault.

I expect most of the readers of this thread have also read the current thread about the GM bailout. I apologize for drifting over into that topic but these two threads, at least in my mind, run hand in hand. Hopefully purman and jimmini among others can now see why I think it is so important that we support our own companies even if it hurts a little. PizzaChop says it's irrational to pay more for an inferior product. Out of context that makes perfect sense and it is hard to disagree with. I don't imagine there is a domestic manufacturer left that thinks they can survive in a global economy producing inferior products. Problem is, without our support now, the ones that are up against it won't have the chance to prove that they have learned the lesson.


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Old 11-02-2008, 03:14 PM   #30
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I get a kick out of "Buy American"...

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Here is the crux of that site (and BTW, it is a very great site).

Take gasoline for example. Sure they are American owned and operated companies, but the end sale goes, in more cases than not, to a foreign entity, so yes you are buying gas from an American company, but the odds are that the oil it took to produce the gas came from the Middle East, South America, Africa, etc. Sure some oil is still extracted here in US soil, by American companies, but very little of it from what I understand makes it to our gas tanks....
You make the best point I have heard/read about "Buy American".

I now expect all of the people who continually bring this to the fore of political debate to STOP driving their vehicles simply because it is impossible to purchase gasoline that is from the USA.

Globalization is a reality. Let's put this "But American" stuff to rest please.


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Old 11-02-2008, 06:54 PM   #31
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We have not been examining where our goods are made, sure we see the random tag but usually disregard it...except I have a heck of a time with fabric from India not being colorfast and shrinking but other than making sure the dog bones are from USA so as not to give our poor darlins something not so good for them it isn't an issue to us. But theorhetically speaking if we made and sold our own products wouldn't that help keep us and our neighbors working? We do opt to pay more from a local merchant on occassion to help the business and we don't begrudge the park system their fees and feel we want to support them.

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Old 11-02-2008, 08:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Larry in MO View Post
All that info is now on the stickers/placards next to the MSRP sticker info. It contains assembly info and major component info and countries of origin and assembly.

For instance, the average Pontiac "Torrent" has an engine made in China and an transmission made in Mexico. They are assembled in Ingersoll, Ontario, Canada.
To add to the complexity, that Mexican made transmission is an Aisin-Warner, a Japanese company owned by Toyota. And that assembly plant in Ingersoll is CAMI, a GM-Suzuki joint venture.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:03 AM   #33
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alot of what we believe is due to perception.for example if you said to somebody "toyota"they would probably say "quality".it is one of the best kept secrets that our american made products hold up just as well as our foreign competitors.the media however will report constantly about any negativity of the big 3 manufacturers.when toyota had the sludge problem with their engines did anybody see any reporting on this?how bout the camshaft problems with the trucks?alot of our competition has found a way to produce products on our soil paying competitive wages.if detroit is going to compete they have to get their overhead under control.if they cant they will go out of business shed themselves of the unions and the bones will be picked by other manufacturers.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:37 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by 85MH325 View Post
I noticed that automobiles were conspicuously absent from the site's listings. I have a Toyota Tundra manufactured in Indiana and now a Nissan Titan manufactured in Canton, OH. The Titan has a Dana 44 differential. Dana, BTW is a Toledo OH company, but it's likely that the axle was manufactured at their plant in India. Ford Ranger Trucks are assembled in St. Paul MN, and use Mazda transmissions manufactured in Mexico (or at least they did at one time). Jeep is currently owned (at least in part) by Daimler, perhaps soon to be a GM marque. Dodge trucks may soon belong to Nissan.

Herein lies the problem... what exactly does "buying American" mean these days?

This is just my "opinion", but to me, it's where the net profit of the sale goes....i.e., Toyota-Japan Chevrolet-USA

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."-- Thomas Jefferson
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:54 AM   #35
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Thank you Steve, That is my opinion also. We can at least try to save our own economy. And I take offense at saying Americans build junk. We have had our ups and downs but we should still support ourselves ecconomicly. If your kid or family member does something boneheaded you don't disown them,at least I hope not. You deal with/fix the problem and move on.
On the automotive side you can find problems with all vehicles. At APG(Fords proving ground in Yucca,Az)a 2005 Toyota pickup shucked the rear axle at about 30,000 miles of towing. I never saw a domestic truck do that. Does'nt mean Toyotas are junk, but they certainatly arn't infallable! Adios, John
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
This is just my "opinion", but to me, it's where the net profit of the sale goes....i.e., Toyota-Japan Chevrolet-USA

This would be nice,,, IF IT WERE TRUE Chevrolet is owned by GM which owns more overseas car dealers... that need money for support so I would say most of this money goes there.. and It's not going anywhere now as they don't have a profit....

RBolton,,, I do buy american when I can, I even make an effort to look at tags to see where stuff is made... I've own 7 american made cars in my life, one I wish I still had... AMC Javallin... It wasn't a good car by any means but it was cool... And I still have my 75 dodge truck with a 440 in it... Great farm turck, BUT I've redone the tranny and the motor was gone through at 60,000 miles and now the rear end is going out.. It has 84,000 original miles on it... I don't use it much and it's cheaper to fix than replace...

Iv'e been burned more than once by the big 3 and won't try them again until they get their act together..... I will buy some old American Muscle cars... they were built OK.. PLUS THE COOL FACTOR>>>

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Old 11-03-2008, 08:50 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
This is just my "opinion", but to me, it's where the net profit of the sale goes....i.e., Toyota-Japan Chevrolet-USA
You are pretty close, my friend, but let me add a little to your post:

Net profit goes to the stockholders for the most part and, I suspect, that most of the GM "owners" are in the US. That is not guaranteed, however.

8% of the outstanding shares are owned by all insiders and 5% owners

92% of the outstanding shares are owned by institutional and mutual fund owners. That is the Fidelity, American Century, etc. The institutional owners are large holding companies, some foreign.

The mutual fund owners are the you and me of the world that have 401ks, 457bs, etc. Most of the company, as well as most large companies, are owned by the citizenry. If grandma gave you 100 shares of GM for graduation, you are an owner, as well. If you simply bought shares from a brokerage, you are an owner.

Individual dealerships are just that. If Big Bob owns Big Bob's Chevy and GMC, then you are mad at Big Bob. Sometimes there are corporate dealerships but most are run by the neighborhood guy and he makes the money if there is any.

Oil companies have similar numbers which is why I always get a kick out of the people that bad-mouth "big oil".--you are talking about your neighbors and me, you know!
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:15 AM   #38
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while trying to decide if something with thousands of parts is "American" can be difficult, some things are easier. food and clothes are two items that come to mind.

service from local stores vs. big box stores has become an issue with me. i no longer troll the aisles looking to save a few bucks. it's not worth my time and the value of experience is priceless!
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:43 PM   #39
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My apologies, sentence should have included "would rather pay more for local .... thereby excluding BIG BOX anything. Cheaper labour out-sourced to countries outside of North America has resulted in sub-standard items. We do better locally and I would like to see these jobs brought back home.
Originally Posted by Aage View Post
love vintage,

If the statement "Would rather pay more for product and be assured it is safe. We, in North America, have much higher production standards." were accurate, we would never had lost the jobs in the first place.

This has been proven by Wal-Mart every day of the year since they abandoned their "Buy American" program (or promotion) back in 1997.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:57 PM   #40
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Big 3 car maker

Now what will NASCAR do when the BIG 3 car maker are gone?
Race toyota's and Honda's?
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:12 PM   #41
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Bring it all back home!
Henry Ford is hoping someone will follow his lead. Anyone up for the challenge?
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:29 PM   #42
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The bicycle industry is a prime example of why "buying American" continues to be a complicated proposition. The Trek bicycle company started in a barn in Waterloo, WI (near Madison) in 1976. They built bicycles there for many years. Their high-end frames continue to be built there, but the bulk of their consumer-grade bikes are built in China using parts from Japan and the U.S. Who knows where the aluminum and steel they're built of is produced.

I'm a huge Trek fan; we have four Trek bikes, and only one of them was actually built in Waterloo, WI. One has a frame built in China, and two have Japanese-built frames.

I also have two Burley recumbents, built by the Burley Design Cooperative (when it was still a co-op) in Eugene, OR. Burley is a perfect model of how off-shore competition hurts U.S. business. Burley "went under" as a design cooperative (partially because of cheap off-shore imports), and were sold to a private investor who is concentrating on bringing the company back into profitability with bicycle trailers as their ownly product after a number of years of high-quality and innovative bicycle design and production. Even though the frames were built in Eugene, they also used Japanese (Shimano) & SRAM components and German tires imported through Canada. SRAM, by the way, is headquartered in Chicago, but they have corporate offices in The Netherlands and Taiwan, and at least some of their parts are manufactured off-shore.

I think that the best we can really do is spend our money locally and support our local businesses to keep them healthy. The global economy of the past twenty years has made almost all U.S. corporations global players to some extent. If you don't believe that, just try to buy any consumer goods today made of stainless steel that are produced anywhere but China or India, regardless of who they're sold by.


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