Beware Vw

[Coloradobus]

We sold our '03 VW Beetle Diesel last week. We FedX'd VW Credit a certified check. We sent them $15.00 extra to expedite sending the title.
VW Credit told us since our last automatic monthly payment had been included in our payoff figure, they wouldn't consider it totally paid with certified funds and wanted an additional check to add to our first check. We would be making a double payment. In this is case, they're willingly take auto-withdrawals as long as it is in their interest. Now the title is being held hostage.
We jumped thru VW's hoops and got our bank to certify the atm withdrawal was certified funds and no reversal would occur.
They have all our money, and now. VW says the title has been misplaced. We sold the car last week because of other service related issues we wern't going to put up with. Now this.
The Tourareg is alledgely the "tow car extraordinaire", but the company has alot to be desired. Buyer beware!

[59toaster]

Originally posted by Coloradobus
We sold our '03 VW Beetle Diesel last week. We FedX'd VW Credit a certified check. We sent them $15.00 extra to expedite sending the title.
VW Credit told us since our last automatic monthly payment had been included in our payoff figure, they wouldn't consider it totally paid with certified funds and wanted an additional check to add to our first check. We would be making a double payment. In this is case, they're willingly take auto-withdrawals as long as it is in their interest. Now the title is being held hostage.
We jumped thru VW's hoops and got our bank to certify the atm withdrawal was certified funds and no reversal would occur.
They have all our money, and now. VW says the title has been misplaced. We sold the car last week because of other service related issues we wern't going to put up with. Now this.
The Tourareg is alledgely the "tow car extraordinaire", but the company has alot to be desired. Buyer beware!

VW went in the toilet long ago.

Tourareg is NOT a tow vehicle and cannot accept a weight distributing hitch and there for is not safe to tow loads over 2k despite VW saying they can handle more. It's Unit body and structuraly desinged wrong the handle SAFE towing equipment like WD hitches

Did you notice they no longer run the comercials showing them towing a Airstream?

VW's ad agency sent E-mail to my 4x4 club to see if we could take them to some trails.....we lhad a good laugh about that. Any of the trails we run that thing would have come out mising fenders.

[Coloradobus]

Thanks Toaster

Your commode comment, I agree with. It took VW 2 1/2 months to get a rear hatch latch for the Beetle. When it arrived, it was the wrong part. So they had to re-order, and we waited 1 more week.. Ya, we have noticed no more VW/Airstream ads. I can't get our local dealer to admit to the Touareg's limitations. or VW.
Our Rover would have run off-road circles around the Touareg. Wish I still had it, tho, traded it for a Duramax. The leather seating isn't as comfortable as Rover.

[whistler]

Sorry to hear about your trouble with VW. We've had our current VW for 4 years now and have had very few problems with it. When something did go wrong it was promptly repaired. It could be the dealer you were working with (as far as repair parts) We've had VW's for 7 of the last 9 years. I would purchase another one and probably will within a year since ours currently has 80K miles on it. I do agree with you--- I would never tow anything with a VW they are not built for it. They make nice sports cars, but that's it. 3 of my sons also drive VW's. Every one seems to have dummies working for them and it looks like VW is no exception.

whistler

[67caravel]

Hey hey hey!

Until you've done the Touareg, don't bad mouth it. There's plenty to substantiate the Touareg's towing abilities here and elsewhere. Just search on "Garth Cane" for starters.

Best regards all,

X

[Silvertwinkie]

Good for 22' or less...more than that and I could care less what the rag sheets say or the crazy few that do tow larger than 22' Not saying you need a 1 ton for larger than a 22', but something other than a Touareg. Of course this is just my .02 having been in one and had the opportunity to drive it.

[67caravel]

Here's someone's response on the Open Roads Forum regarding the Touareg's towing abilities. Thought I might share this bit of "tongue in cheek" with you all.

Quote

The Touareg is engineered by Germans. Germans also developed the pie-in-the-sky tow ratings. They don't know anything about American roads or how Americans like to drive. Most of them have never even been here and their engineers have never towed anything or studied tow dynamics. It's strictly an American thing.

For example, the Touareg has independent four wheel suspension. Everybody knows you get more stability from a solid axle on both ends. Also, it comes with 255/55 R18V tires. Everyone knows these are not suitable for towing because the wheels are so tall and the tires have relatively short sidewalls. Also, the rims are too wide. This means the rig doesn't have as much side-to-side movement to absorb trailer sway as most real tow rigs do. I mean, what would you say at the campground when all the guys are talking about sway control and one of them says "Ron, so what do you use for sway control"? All eyes are on you, remember. Do you think you could get away with replying, "Actually, I don't use any sway control". Of course not, their little eyes would bugger out as they all said "What, you are travelling without SWAY control"? So that's one more good reason why the Touareg is not a suitable tow vehicle.

The rear overhang (rear axle to tow ball) is only 38". Now if you look at proven HD vehicles is always a lot more than that so how could the Touareg tow anything but a light little trailer? All the big rigs have big overhangs.

Also, the Touareg sits low to the ground on the freeway with it's adjustable air suspension. Again, if you look at the real proven heavy duty tow rigs, most of them sit up proud and high where they can get good leverage on the trailer. Obviously, these taller rigs can control a trailer better than the squat Touareg.

Now look at the steering. Most good tow rigs will have recirculating ball steering because, well, that's what comes with most of them. Now the Touareg, it has rack and pinion, those crazy Germans don't know how to make a good steering system for towing. Rack and pinion might be fine for a sports car but it is too precise for towing, the best tow rigs have a big ponderous feel to them and that's why they have recirculating ball. With a big ponderous feel the driver is less likely to feel a dangerous situation developing. This leads to a more relaxed and more confident driver that is less likely to do something foolish.

Transmission. The Touareg comes with a 6 speed automatic and no choice to go with a simplier setup while most tow rigs come with 4 solid gears. Sometimes if you want to waste your money you can get 5 gears but that's just extra complexity with no benefit. Who would want 6 gears on a rig designed for towing? Geeze!

The Touareg's air suspension is corney. Serious tow drivers know that steel is strong and air is, well, air is just air. How can you expect air to perform as well as steel? Plus, do you really believe that the Touareg's computers know how to adjust that air suspension for towing? Nop-ee, that's an art that has to be learned over decades. No computer could hope to adjust things optimally.

Plus, everyone knows that a good tow vehicle has a stiff suspension in back when you are not towing. But, when you unhook the trailer from a Touareg and the auto air suspension softens the rear and firms up the front, well, it wouldn't drive like a HD tow vehicle anymore, would it? Nobody would believe it was a good tow vehicle with such a soft, balanced ride. They would think you were nuts for pulling a trailer with it. Another negative, it comes with a built in air compressor. This could lead to excessive fiddling with tire pressures. An experienced tow driver knows it's always best to fill up with air at a good service station.

Lights. Air suspended Touaregs come with self-leveling Bi-Xenon headlights. First of all, anyone who's ever towed at night with a good tow rig knows this is a worthless feature. Secondly, who would be foolish enough to actually tow at night? And if you never tow at night, who needs self-leveling headlamps? Even if I was towing at night I would want my headlights flashing up high, into other drivers eyes, so they would know a big load was approaching and they would get out of my way!

The Touareg has a sophisticated four-wheel drive system with yaw sensors and the ability to shift power to a different wheel or apply the brakes to a single wheel in a fraction of a second if it detects the car yawing without an actual steering input. This could be very dangerous because it could help obscure the fact that patches of black ice were developing on the road (for example). An unattentive driver could find himself going way too fast in really treacherous conditions. Also, the sophisticated four wheel drive could encourage the exploration of the local off-road trails once you set up camp. This would discourage you from returning to the same campsite because you would have fuly explored the area.

Weight. The TDI Touareg weighs over 5700 lbs. empty! When you are going up a big hill, more weight means more work for the engine and the lighter your trailer must be to compensate. Other comparable SUV's are only 4200-4700 lbs. And the TDI only puts out 310 HP and 550 ft/lbs. That's a lot of weight for that little power.

The Touareg is unibody construction. That's too stiff and has no flex or give to absorb the trailers motion. Traditionally, HD tow rigs have two big steel beams which helps sets up oscillations with the trailer so you know what's going on back there. With uni-body, you might not even be able to detect that a stability problem is developing back there. That could be dangerous. Better to stick with the tried and true.

As you can see, just about every aspect of the Touareg makes it unsuitable for towing anything but a very light-weight pop-up or small boat.

[Silvertwinkie]

You know, I was talking with a good friend of mine tonight after I posted to this thread. I had asked how their 2002 V6 (sorry forgot the model, but it's a sedan) was.....I was totally shocked to hear this....

They told me that the car has 28k on it and has been maintained properly (which I believe as we both are avid maint people). The car's main seals blew out, the PCM died, the timing belt went south and took the entire engine with it (all different events--not all at one time). So now the 2 year old car that was bought new has a new engine in it.

Could happen to any car brand, but I would have not expected that from a VW.

[Joe Z]

X-Ray, I like your style!

My wife and I own a 2000 VW Passat GLX that we purchased new. It has been an excellent vehicle. Seems it's been at the top of Consumer Reports Magazine tested vehicles for quite some time.

And that Touareg.......didn't it win two off road magazine 4x4 or year awards.......links below:

Motor Trend

4-Wheel & Off Road Magazine

[biggerbadbrad]

I don't think we want this thread to turn into a debate about how good or bad Volkswagens are. Here is a list of the 5 best selling cars EVER.

1. Volkswagen Beetle, 1937
21 million made

2. Toyota Corolla, 1963
20 million

3. Ford Model T, 1908
15.5 million

4. Volkswagen Golf/Rabbit, 1974
15 million

5. Lada Riva, 1970
13.5 million

Nuff said?

...or should we start putting down Harley-Davidson motorcycles, Polaris snowmobiles and Airstream travel trailers?

bbb

[wahoonc]

Originally posted by Silvertwinkie
So now the 2 year old car that was bought new has a new engine in it.

Could happen to any car brand, but I would have not expected that from a VW.

I think ALL manufacturers have a bad one once in a while. I have 3 Ford Trucks, '94 has over 150k miles on the orginal motor and tranny, 97has 235k miles, with the orginal engine still in it (V-6) tranny rebuilt at 195k, we have an '03 that had to have the engine replaced at 16k miles...go figure. Also have a 99 Tauraus with 70k on it and no problems worth mentioning.

Aaron

[67caravel]

Hey Barkingspider, don't forget this one. Frankly, the Touareg's list of awards and accolades just keeps on growing and growing and growing and growing...:

MotorWeek's 2004 Picks

Volkswagen's first entry in the SUV market, the Touareg earned the top step of the podium as overall winner of MotorWeek 's Drivers' Choice Awards.

MotorWeek, the Public Broadcasting Service's automotive television program, announced its annual Drivers' Choice Awards at the 2004 Chicago Auto Show this February.

Volkswagen earned the top spot in this 22nd edition of the Drivers' Choice Awards with its all-new Touareg. VW's first entry into the SUV market, the Touareg "has few compromises among all of the missions it must handle—from people mover and off-road vehicle to luxury highway cruiser to utility—it hits its market perfectly," according to MotorWeek 's host and executive producer John Davis.

There were only two repeat winners from 2003—the Honda Element as Best Small Sport-Utility Vehicle and the Mercedes-Benz E-Class as Best Luxury Sedan. The other eleven categories were dominated by models that were either all-new or completely redesigned for the 2004 model year.

While import brands continue to dominate the Drivers' Choice Awards, domestic brands had a strong showing in the larger vehicle categories: The Best Pickup Truck was awarded to the redesigned Ford F-150, while the Dodge Durango was named Best Family Sport-Utility Vehicle. The imports were displaced from the Best Family Sedan category, with this year's award going to the Chevrolet Malibu.

The thirteen categories represented a good mix of manufacturers, with only Toyota, Ford, Mercedes-Benz and Honda (with Acura) taking more than one category. Toyota placed the Sienna as Best Minivan and Prius as Best Eco-Friendly; Ford placed the F-150 as Best Pickup Truck and GT as one of the Best Dream Machines; Honda's Element was Best Small Sport-Utility Vehicle and the Acura TL was Best Sport Sedan; and the Mercedes-Benz placed its E-Class as Best Luxury Sedan and the entire AMG lineup as one of the Best Dream Machine winners.

The only tie was in the Dream Machine category. The three-way tie included the Ford GT, the company's new 500-horsepower supercar; the Bentley Continental GT, one of the fastest 4-seat coupes in the world; and the Mercedes-Benz AMG lineup. It's interesting to note that the Mercedes entry is not a car—it represents all the high-performance sedans, coupes, SUVs and sports cars to come from the company's in-house tuner AMG.

The annual MotorWeek Drivers' Choice Awards are chosen by a team of ten judges comprised of the writers, producers and crew of MotorWeek. Judges' decisions were based on performance, technology, practicality and dollar value.

[Silvertwinkie]

Funny, none of that praise said one thing about towing......

[67caravel]

No, that's been saved for the other magazine articles that have been done on it (ad nauseum) extolling the Touareg's towing abilities.

Read up!

X

[Joe Z]

Originally posted by Silvertwinkie
Funny, none of that praise said one thing about towing......

Directly from the Motortrend article I referenced above:

"VW is saving the biggest Touareg gun for next year, when it'll introduce a 5.0-liter V-10 turbodiesel with 553 pound-feet of earth-rotating torque--more than a Dodge Viper's. Thanks to the flexibility of the six-speed automatic and the solidity of the body structure, all Touaregs--V6, V8, and V10 turbodiesel--are capable of towing up to 7716 pounds, substantially more than the Mercedes M-Class, BMW X5, or last year's Motor Trend Sport/Utility of Year, the Volvo XC90."

[Coloradobus]

OK, The cars maybe rated very high and many people like us, too, enjoyed our New Beetle. Our headache was with VW. It took VW, not the dealer 2 1/2 months to send a part. Then, when it arrived , it was wrong. They would not consider getting it from Germany. All New Beetles come from Mexico, and that is where the part I was told would come from thru one of their warehouses.
Now VW Credit and the company that holds the titles for them in georgia has lost ours. AND, they won't refund the "expedite fee" they charged ($15.00) supposedly to speed things along. HMMM
I'm tired of fighting with them.
Buyer beware.

[59toaster]

X-ray. Do some searching on the T whatever here.

You will find threads about people who have attempted to tow within VW's rating and failed miserably. You will also find a link to the story that got the commercials pulled and the poor guy who is fighting VW about it.

YOU CANNOT USE A WD hitch that vehicle. The way the car is designed the leverage goes against what the engineers of the body feel is safe for it's structure.

Without a WD hitch tongue weight unloads the front suspension. It doesn't matter what the suspension is or what vehicle, that's simple physics. The back wheels become a fulcrum. That cannot be helped without a WD hitch. So you drop 800lb on the back bumper you have a situation where the trailer can now shove the car around and over come the front wheels ability to steer. This will happen with any vehicle given enough tongue weight if it is not counteracted in some way.


As for my personal VW comments. I stand by them....They suck...I worked on my families and friends most of my life. Here is a list of what has been owned by my family and friends.

63 Bus Mine
68 Square back My families car.
73 412 Wagon Replaced Square back and became my first car in 84.
82 Vannagon Replaced 412 as family car.
83GTI it replaced the 412 as my second car
87 Jetta replace Mitsubishi that replaced vannagon (mom didn't like the forward drive set up) This car blew three auto's in 80k. 2 electrical system failures, NEVER could be made to idle anything resembling smooth. THE LAST VW EVER OWNED BY MY FAMILY Because of declining quality.

We have also owned several Porsche's including.
72 914 2.0
65 356 C cabriolet
57 Speedster.

List of my friends
86 Cabriolet Good friend in School
87 Cabriolet Roommate
70 Bug Friend
87 Jetta 5 speed Same friend as 70 bug Same idle issue as moms but with manual he didn't puke transmissions every 25k
70 Squarback another friend
74 Westfailia replaced 70 Squarback.
82 Rabbit friend
81 Rabbit diesel...blew head gasket annually.

I did repairs on most of these vehicles. The air cooled never had problems but worn out clutches and leaky fuel lines.
I might know a little about VW's. I sure know they are why I am going to hell. The 87 Jetta has been a thorn in my back since the warranty ran out. I have invented cuss words working on that one.

Oh yeah my job puts me working on a little bit of everything. You name it I have probably installed a car phone in it. Every MB, BWM, VW, Porsche, Caddie etc. I have even done a Mondial and a 57 Vett. So I have first hand knowledge of some of the quality on these vehicles.


As for the magazines. I firmly believe they one. The tests were done by car guys that know nothing about towing and just took VW's word for it.
As for the 4x4 mags.....It was one of the few new 4x4s so the vehicles it was competing against was small.
As for it's 4x4 prowess. I would put that 73 412 would do the same and more. That 412 because of it's flat belly could easily run through 3ft of snow with chains....It was a sled. Mom use to take my around to on my newspaper route when we lived in Michigan in it.

What they pictured as hard 4x4 work I would not even have put my 4x4 into 4wd yet and NONE of my wheels would have left the ground. My 4x4 could drive over that thing no problem. I have driven it over cars already and have pictures If you want to see.

Ok my views are not a reflection of Airstream or Airstreamforums. They are the personal views of a lunatic who is condemned to eternal damnation from working on them.

They are in no way meant as an attack on anybody so please do not take offence. They are personal opinion.


bI reread some updates. I still stand by my comments .Yes they have a recieve available now but only a class III. Not enough and not rated to take the kind of loads a larger coach can exert on the vehicle.

[67caravel]

Toaster,

There is no way to argue with someone who has their head in the sand, you should know that.

The "guy who had problems" was Bluvalley. We have not seen hide nor hair of him since. He admitted on this forum that he had never towed anything before in his life (search on Bluvalley). The VW exec who paid him off was fired for doing so. CBS would not respond to a notable RV magazine when they responded to Bluvalley's claims by field testing the Touareg with a 30' Airstream which included running it through a pylon course at 80 MPH in addition to other feats of strength. The author of these tests reported that the Touareg was the best tow vehicle he had EVER driven in 33 or 34 years of RV testing. There are dozens of pictures of Touaregs towing boats, race cars, and trailers all over the internet. C'mon!

If this is a bashing poll, then perhaps we should get our facts straight.

I bought the Touareg for reasons beyond its towing abilities but I am thankful it is such a great towing vehicle nonetheless.

X

[Silvertwinkie]

I'd like more real world from folks that use it rather than go off the rag sheets.

Again, this is not bashing the T, I am sure it will do fine for 22ft or less (strong on the less), however nothing anyone will say either on this forum and/or in the rag sheets will convince me that the T is a great tow vehicle for more than 22' PERIOD, end of converstaion. Anyone want to throw stones and say that my head is in the sand, so be it. Everyone is entitled to their opinions here as I was not under the impression that we were censoring anyone's opinions.

So glad people like the T. Looks like a great SUV. It makes little difference to me what folks get. I have driven a T and I have towed for well over 13 years. Would I tow my 25' Safari with it, not a chance. Again, my choice and my opinion. One could easily say that folks that are so pro T might also have their head in the sand.

To each their own. Folks take things so personally sometimes.....

[67caravel]

Silvertwinkie,

I wasn't referring to you.

Frankly, I think you are sensible, honest, and open minded enough to realize the issues here. Plus, I enjoy your posts.

X