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Old 05-01-2008, 12:04 PM   #71
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waste the money

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFord79
First I believe you are wasting you'r money on conversions to propane/nautral gas or anything else.


It is not going to be any cheaper to switch to alternate fuels, in the long run, because of this....



If you notice all the talk about hybrids and diesels and you think you are going to operate them any cheaper than regular gas,,,,NO. NOT in the long run.



I am only stating these things because of what I read from various sources. It comes down to spending a lot of money on alternater fuels that are hard to find (unless all gas stations carry them) is a waist of time and money.

Buy the most fuel efficent vehicle for your needs and forget all the modifications. It coasts too much an is too inconvienient unless you have your own local E-85 supplier or Biodiesel distrubtor in your town. That goes for propane. Why change when propane is or will cost as much as gas?

.
Waste my money ??????
The propane is not as the same price of the gas in Europe ( I don't know in USA & Canada ) ; To simplify calculations, there a difference of 1 euro for 1 liter ( 1.50 for gas and this morning, 0.55 for LPG )
My consumption is 15 liters to drive 100 kilometers: Economy in using LPG instead of gas: 15 each time I run 100 km , 150 for 1000km, 1500 for 10 000 km.... and I have 400 000 km now so in theory I've made the economy of 60 000 .... I say in theory because the the LPG/ gas price was not always at the same rate ( between 1/2 to 1/3 price ).
So you can see easyly I've not wasted my money, even with an expensive conversion system.

Most of gas stations in France are equiped with the LPG pump so NO difficulty to refill during a trip. We find them too, in belgium, Holland, Spain, not in germany and I don't know for Italy.

Sure, taxes from the differents european governments are certainly lower for the LPG and when they'll decide to increase them, LPG 'll be no more intersting so , for the moment, it's a good solution.
In an other side, if LPG was really successfull with drivers, the Governments 'll fix the LPG price as the same level than the gas price.... when business is business.... no pity for the poor driver...

so to reply to "is it the beginning of the end", NO , NO , NO.
There are solutions so you have to made good choices...

bruno
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Old 05-01-2008, 01:34 PM   #72
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Mild political rant

If I ran the world...we'd be in worse shape than we are, BUT

Don't you all wish that the day after 9/11 George W. had made a speech that went something like this?
----------------------------------

My Dad's generation is called "The Greatest Generation" with reason, but now we have our own Pearl Harbor at the twin towers. Our generation's challenge is worse than World War II in some ways because we aren't at war with an identifiable country or enemy. We have to declare war on an idea and on it's main perpetrator, Osama Bin Laden. We have to change the hearts and minds of his rank and file followers and sympathisers. We have to deal with a group of fanatic fundamentalists in an area of the world that has known corruption, poverty and political instability for all of it's recorded history... and it's a war that cannot be won by our armed intervention.

But it can be won!

It can only be won by the participation of every citizen in the USA. Our immediate target has to be imported oil. We MUST issue a challenge to the entire middle east in these simple words. We will expend any amount of money necessary to build wind generators, solar power, hydrogen fuel cells - or any other alternative sources of energy. We will restrict our travel in cars and trucks until we starve OPEC into non-existance!

We will not stop until we see the dead body of Osama Bin Laden and his main henchmen.

We will not interfere with the internal governments of any middle eastern states that remain peaceful towards the USA; but we will encourage those governments to bring violent terrorists within their borders to justice, and we will do this by economic pressure. It may take a year, it may take 10 years... but this is the way we bring the people who killed 4000 civilians of every race, creed, color and nationality in New York City yesterday.

I am calling on Americans to do these simple things. If you have two cars, use the one that gets the best mileage for your daily driver. Business owners, can some of your workers be scheduled to work 4 days, 10 hours per day? This will cut their transportation costs by 20%. For each person who does drive to work... ONE day per week, carpool or take a bus. Cut your weekly travel by another 20%. When you go to church or to a grocery store, share a ride with a neighbor whenever possible. If you are physically able, walk to the neighborhood convenience store instead of riding in your car. Plan your shopping so that you only have to do it once a week. If it's cold outside, turn your thermostat down two degrees and put on a sweater. Buy a bicycle and use it.

We don't need to destroy our American lifestyle to fight this war, but we do need to use restraint, common sense and forethought. If you want to go on vacation GO. If you want to go out to a restaurant or a play, do so. Just don't do it three nights a week. Ask yourself whether saving one more gallon of gas might be the gallon that brings these terrorists to judgement. We can keep our economy strong and growing by home growing our own new energy sources, and investing in our own energy independence.

We will have to do a better job of patrolling our borders, our airways and our ground transportation grids. We'll have to be watchful because another attempt could come at any time, at any place... but most of all we have to remember that for every Islamic terrorist who wants to destroy America there are 100 Moslems who want their contries to BE America. All we have to do is convince the 100 that THEY can't tolerate terrorists within their own borders.

------------------------------------------------

I'd bet Osama's family would have done him in within a year if we'd have declared war that way.... and stayed the course.

If we simply take the time to remember - gas dropped from $1.55 per gallon to $1 per gallon for almost three months after the twin towers fell. BECAUSE WE STAYED HOME and didn't party. I have to wonder how many wind farms could have been built with the money we've spent on this war.

We can't undo what we've done in the past, but we could bring our troops home NOW and declare this war tomorrow. What will it cost us? A helluva lot less at the pump, that's what.

Sorry for the rant, but if you want to, send a copy of this to the nominee of your choice.

Paula
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Old 05-01-2008, 02:19 PM   #73
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Thoughts on gas guzzling

Since our tow vehicle gets about 8 mpg dragging the trailer the cost of gas has definitely become an issue, and we find ourselves looking for camping opportunities closer to home. We are planning one weeklong trip from NE Wisconsin over to the Fargo, ND area around the 4th, and I think the tax rebate checks will be going right into the gas tank to make that happen.

I'm an investment rep, and there's so much that goes into the price we pay for gas: There's our lack of refineries, our reluctance to pump our own domestic oil (have you heard about the sea of oil under North Dakota?), the weakening of our dollar, and then of course our buddies in the Mideast who are getting rich from the us and the rest of the world - and taking the money we give them to turn around and buy up ever-increasing stakes in our domestic businesses, and promote their interests with big business and the politicians.

When you get right down to it we have two oilmen in the White House, with close ties to the mideast, and stakes in both the oil business and the war business. Despite the obscene profits the oil companies make, we still continue to give them tax breaks. Crazy.

But what can you do? As for us, we're going camping next weekend - and though it's only an hour from home we'll be in a great state park with a long sandy beach, with great food and libations - kicking off the 08 camping season in style!
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:14 PM   #74
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Surge in "For Sale" Airstreams

I'm wondering whether the problem is just the gas prices, or whether people are selling their RV's because they need cash to keep paying mortgages, etc. Our area is pretty safe economically because of the U.S. Navy. None the less, the Ford plant closed, Lillian Vernon went bankrupt and several other fairly large employers have laid off workers. Higher priced restaurants have reported drops in business of up to 50%.

I'm betting that insecurity is playing a big part in people's decisions to cut back on optional spending. (I'm looking for an economy "daily driver" vehicle myself).

Paula
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:17 PM   #75
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Bruno,

Propane where I live is within 30 to 40 cents a gallon of regular gas. So givin the 15% loss in milage and performance WE get with propane. Propane is the same price as gasoline in the US. That 15% decline in performance has been well documented over and over. AND....thats what the motor companys also say.
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:40 PM   #76
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RedSHED

I was reacting to a previous post on THIS thread. And my end comment related to the things mentioned above and the effect of the RV industry. I of all people understand the impact of a polical statement. I should know I Was in the publishing business for over 30 years. I am a military Veteran of the Vietnam era. Spent my Vietnam tour in the 23nd infantry division.

If this post is off track the it is. But we are talking about the impact...and someone before I had the WHY??

One should never mix politics and Airstreams...but this is life. We all want to know why things happen just not that they are happening.

There is nothing I said that is MY opinion. I read the infomation and passed it along. You may not agree but again that does not make it right or wrong. But I respect anyones opinions and beliefs. I like to talk... I like to get people thinking.

I am scared to death that our way of life might be threatened for the first time since WWII because of run away oil prices.

I am not taking a direct stab at anyone here. Just stating some of the things that might be the reason our RV life is threatened. BECAUSE .someone ask.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:13 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmtyme
I heard this morning they "project" gas to rise to $200. barrel in the next year.

We have tons of our own fuel in many areas the environmentalists will not allow us to tap .

As long as we are dependent on foreign oil we will pay high prices. We need to tap into our own reserves and be independent!

When was the last refinery built in the US?
When was the last power plant built?
We are way behind the times.
If we were cut off from foreign oil, what would happen?
We need to think beyond the pump.
We should not be dependent on any country for anything.
Very well said....I think I just read its been 25?? years since the last refinery was built.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:16 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
has there been any talk of reducing the federal taxes on gas? is it a flat rate per gallon or a percentage?
Motor Fuel Taxes

Flat rate..great information about all state and ferderal taxes on this site.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:28 PM   #79
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Folks I've pulled some posts that were getting too political in nature. As you are aware there are a lot of places outside of this forum to deal with the nature and actions that our politicians make. Whether you are passing on information from other sources or whether it is or is not your personal opinion, by the forum polices, this is not the place. So everyone watch your step on this one.

Thanks.

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Old 05-02-2008, 05:46 PM   #80
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Trying to drag the thread back on-topic...

For those who are overreacting to the potential of exploding LPG tanks, every one of our trailers (and almost every other brand of RV in North America) has at least one. I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard about LPG tank explosions on RVs and auto/trucks. I hear and see many more exploding or burning vehicles and RVs from much more conventional means, such as a wiring short. Disney World uses LPG fueled locomotives to pull their signature trains around their parks, and have for decades, without incident.
Even RVs that have burned to the ground still have their LP tanks intact, if scorched.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:53 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
For those who are overreacting to the potential of exploding LPG tanks, every one of our trailers (and almost every other brand of RV in North America) has at least one. I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard about LPG tank explosions on RVs and auto/trucks. I hear and see many more exploding or burning vehicles and RVs from much more conventional means, such as a wiring short. Disney World uses LPG fueled locototives to pull their signature trains around their parks, and have for decades, without incident.
Even RVs that have burned to the ground still have their LP tanks intact, if scorched.
After 30 + years as a firefighter, Terry is correct. I feel very safe around propane and I consider it a safe alternative.
I didn't have a chance to read any of the deleted posts, hopefully I'm not re-stepping in something....
Dave
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:06 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
After 30 + years as a firefighter, Terry is correct. I feel very safe around propane and I consider it a safe alternative.
I didn't have a chance to read any of the deleted posts, hopefully I'm not re-stepping in something....
Dave
Not stepping in anything, I was responding to Bruno's post about his neighbors being terrified of his LP powered F150.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:17 PM   #83
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Whew...
'Course, I WAS agreeing with the moderator
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:13 PM   #84
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Everything is so different from the past.
I miss the 60s alot.
I also remember things were not so great....and I don't mean politics or drugs.
Inflation of the 70s was much worse than whats going on now.
Had fun anyway...and will find ways now.
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