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Old 01-19-2006, 12:48 PM   #15
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Update....

I kinda feel GUILTY by burdening U all with My troubles, but My gran used 2 say 2 Me... Listen My Boy, talk 2 someone, strangers R the best, U don't kn them... & U may well learn a thing or 2 from them... well I sure have learnd a LOT from U Guys, that's 4 sure... I met some of U as well... a trouble shared.
Visited Mum a while ago, She complaing abt Her eyes hurtin, they found out the other day that Her borderline Diabetic IS FULL Strength...so She gotta have Her eyes examined now, as if She aint got enough 2 worry abt, I don't kn, what We gonna do with Her, What amazes Me is She STILL keeps on SMILING... She had a visit from some Big-Wig Doctor, Never said a word hardly... but did say when the results get bk 2 Him, He'll let Her know... They never do tho... All one way... She insists She gonna come home 2morrow, said that ever since She went in, We R ALL hangin in here, every day kinda gets easier, don't kn Y, but it jus seems 2...
My Boss has bn great, keeps tellin Me if I gotta go, I gotta GO... jus let Him know... think Mum comes B4 work... would'nt U say... well I only got one MUM, there's a MILLION other jobs out there...Chris.....
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Old 01-19-2006, 10:03 PM   #16
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So sorry about your mother. Our family will be praying for your family. I can relate to the diabetes, my husband is a type 1 and he has an insulin pump. Being that she has cancer that will most likely keep her sugar out of wack. She is lucky to have you for a son, there are so many that just turn a blind eye. God bless
Dawn
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Old 01-20-2006, 12:49 AM   #17
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Death is NOT a 4 letter word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canny_banjo_man
... If I have 2 go get Her in My wheelbarrow & sneak Her outta there, then that B it...Chris.....
Good for you! GET HER HOME! If she dies in 4 days at home, she'll have 4 better days than if she lives in a hospital for 4 months!

For all you nice folks on the forums and Chris - My mum used to be the world's worst hypochondriac until at age 75 she actually did have a very minor stroke.... and she suddenly became healthy. I was 14 when mum called me to her deathbead with the first of 9 or 10 "fatal" heart attacks... (actual illness? a mild case of atrial fibrillation, which resolves itself, or is treated with one digitalis pill.) I was probably in my 20's before I realized her attacks happened just in time for spring cleaning - so I could scrub for weeks to spare her. Get me drunk at a rally... and I'll have you laughing til you puke with some of her antics.

It's ironic, but now all of her fears and terrors are real, and while I'm not uncaring, I've kind of already gone through the whole mourning process years ago. Chris - in a queer way you're fortunate that you only have to deal with it in the here and now, and that your mother seized the day and LIVED. I'll pray for you and your brothers and sisters... and I'll hope your mother's pain can be managed. Most of all I hope you can comfort each other by remembering and sharing the memories of your mother's cheerful nature. That should be your real comfort.

Death has become a dirty word, and it isn't acceptable to talk about it if it's even vaguely imminent, but it will happen to all of us. At your mother's age - and my mother's age - it can happen today or tomorrow.

Chris, a last great irony of life is that often we force the dying to comfort US - by acting like everything is going to be OK. I think none of us can look death square in the eye for long, but taking at least a sideways glance can often open doors for both parties. And I firmly believe that anything that helps you and your family deal with it is fine - even if it's entirely gross and inappropriate humor.

We got my mother to pre-plan her funeral by suggesting that we would scatter her ashes over the Richard Nixon memorial library! (knowing how she loathed big Dick) Humor and white zinfindel... a foolproof way to cheer up mother!

Planning a funeral won't make it happen. (Tell your mum that!) Wanting to say "I forgive you" before someone close passes on won't make them die. If you knew it was the last week of YOUR Life what would you want to do, say, forgive? If we try to give that to our mothers and they change the subject, that's their choice, but if they respond ... well there just aren't words for that are there?

Brothers and sisters:

It was a long time before I realized that my mother - and a lot of other parents - practice "divide and conquer" as a way of keeping their children in hand, but unfortunately the children can spend a lifetime resenting each other. My brother, sister and I got together at one family reunion and had a 30 minute brawl over "you were always the favorite" ... then the lightbulb went on! Mom always made us think that we were never quite as good as each other. All of our lives completely changed on that day. My brother and I don't have much in common, but we are as friendly as we can be living at opposite ends of the country. My sister and I are the co-consipirators that manage mum. And frankly, we sometimes make the grossest most macabre jokes about mom behind her back. Example: I always hear people say "I can't do enough for my mother." Now I say exactly the same words... but somehow they mean something entirely different........ (If you gave mom a million dollars in gold she'd complain that she didn't like the color, sigh softly and say it would have been so much nicer in platinum...)

We allow her to think she's still got us snowed, but we always compare notes and just crack each other up over the stuff mom tries.

Last year for her birthday we got her a motorized recliner that will literally stand her up, and let her lean against it while it sits her back down. She is having lots of problems with her balance, etc. Unbelievably she really liked it, didn't say it was too big, too small, too hard, too soft or the wrong color. We about fell down. Now of course we do hum a line from a song about mom "sitting in her electric chair"......

She is still OCD (do you get "Monk" on TV over there?) - nobody can clean house well enough to satisfy her, the spice rack MUST BE arranged in alphabetical order - and nothing is ever "good enough". But the thing is - we accept her as she is - and we go ahead and do what we need to do to help her - and we don't compete, but buoy each other up when she gets mean spirited.

What you're going through is an emotional roller coaster.... and it's hit you out of the blue. Accept that whatever happens and that however you all act, it's just what you have to do to get through it. My brother, sister and I made only one promise to each other. "We will try to act in such a way that when we look back on it five years later - we won't be ashamed of ourselves or regret things we should have done."

We hold you in our hearts.

Tin Lizzie
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Old 01-20-2006, 02:06 PM   #18
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Thank U...

.....Say there Tin Lizzie... as I said Mum brought us 4 kids up the Best She could, in the '60s... gee it was hard 4 Her, I can tell U stories that will crease U, infact I think I will, But firstly there is no change in Her condition at all 2 Day, tho she pines 4 Her home... 2ndly, B nice 2Yr kids, they get 2 choose Yr retirement home... Far from it... Mum aint goin in any home, don't care if it is Buckingham Palace, She'll moan abt it... But here's one of My stories, I know, I AM ( was ) that Child...
It did'nt bother Me that I had odd pumps 4 school, one was BLACK, the other WHITE, did'nt bother Me that one was a LACE UP, the other a SLIP ON... nor the fact that one was a SIZE 5 & too TIGHT, the other a 7 & too LOOSE... What realy bothered Me was that they BOTH for LEFT FEET... after pleadin with Mum NOT 2 make Me wear them at My school, as cool as a cucumber She turns 2 Me & says... well My Boy, keep movin Yr feet abt NO ONE will notice... maybe not, but they noticed how RED My face was with embarassment.... LOL, NOT FUNNY, well not then, but now...LOL.
Mum STILL insists there is Nothing wrong with Her, yet they gonna keep Her in 4 a few more tests, I ask Her this, & She says She bn chosen 4 the Junior doctors 2 practice, U kn, i'm like a Model, & they R junior doctors...
they gotta learn on someone.... God She's so stubborn, & if she aint home within the next 2 weeks, well... well I wonder if it is an offence 2 Wheel Barrow a MODEL Patient out of a hospital... SIGH, But Seriously, We R ALL at our wits end over it all... No one knows what 2 say 2 Her, We jus sit there lookin at each other, & smilin at Mum & noddin our heads like ruddy noddin dogs... it's so pittyful, She jus lays on Her bed all day, havin far 2 much time 2 think abt things, I'm sure She scarin Her self in2 a illness... Because U can't C any damage like a broken Leg / Arm in a sling, it's hard 2 imagine whats realy goin on inside Her, tho She DID say one day that She came in with " A Pair ", & I'm goin home with a PAIR 2... So She knows what up with Her, jus wont talk abt it 2 any one, We tried, But She moves the goal posts, as it were... Well Thank U all agn, God bless U ALL... Chris.....
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:24 PM   #19
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Grab the Doctor and Threaten... REALLY

No Doctor has EVER saved a SINGLE human life. An emergency appendectomy PROLONGED my eleven year old brother's life - possibly by another 60 or 80 years, but my brother is still going to die, someday! Say something like that to a group of doctors and they'll look at you like you just shoved a **** sandwich under their noses. But it's something that everyone who is caring for an elderly person needs to know, believe and say to every doctor that comes within 10 feet of their parent.

My mother will NOT be alive 10 years from now... or even 5 years from now... and possibly not even 1 month from now. If she wants a margarita with salt on the brim, she SHOULD have it, because it really can't hurt her now. If she dies two weeks earlier because she has it... well, why exactly would that be a problem? (Ten years ago skipping the salt was a great idea... I skip the salt, but when I'm 85? Piss off!)


---------------
Doctors aren't evil, but they've been trained to think and act agressively and to regard EVERY death as a personal failure.

Doctors look at a 2 lb. bad heart and say "I can fix that".... but they forget to look at the 130 lb. 85 year old who is wrapped around that bad heart. Doctors look at cancer and think, I can operate, use radiation, chemotherapy or all of the above and I can kill the cancer... but they don't think what will be LEFT for the patient. Doctors are almost incapable of looking at a whole patient and saying "her life expectancy even without this problem is a matter of months or even weeks, and any medical "heroics" will only prolong her death, not her life."

You may literally have to tell your mom's doctors exactly what my kid sister did.... "Doctor if you crack open my mother's chest I'm going to crack open your head."

BTW she is a black belt so she wasn't kidding. (I'm not a blackbelt, so I just resort to references to "Texas Chainsaw Vasectomy" which is a real attention getter.)

Naturally they tried to convince me that Karen was being unreasonable and that mom had signed a consent form - and knew what she was doing when she signed... I dragged the doctor back into the room and held the form up and asked mom what she had signed. Her response, "Well this nice young man just needed me to sign to get the medicare reimbursement started." I thought the doctor was going to pass out! Mom appears to be very alert, and she's always eager to please anything in a white coat, but in fact she's 80% deaf AND in early stages of Alzheimers.

Then I asked her directly, "Mom, they think that maybe you could have a heart bypass... do you want them to crack your chest open and operate?" Her response, "Oh, HELL NO!" Next, "Mom, if you had another heart attack while you were in here and your heart stopped do you want them to hook you up to the jumper cables and call a code blue? (Mom did work in a hospital in her 50's). Again she responded, "We've been over that a dozen times... NO! They burn you, they break your ribs or your sternum and they "save" you so five or six times... but by the end of the week you still die. Screw that."

(It was a real pleasure to hear my generally prudish mother say "screw that") And the expression on the young doctor's face ... priceless. Fortunately we DID get mom to do the whole living will process years ago.


I'm not really up on British medicine, but Hospice is an idea we imported from Europe... not the other way around. Get someone from a hospice program to advise and help you... get your siblings to realize they have all got to stick to the same line. Mom goes HOME, Mom goes HOME NOW, Mom gets to die at HOME. If she's in denial, that's fine, that's great and she's going HOME.

When the doctors argue - ask them "Can you see ANY circumstance where mum will be alive, mentally alert, pain free, and able to get about one year from today? If not, give us one reason why she shouldn't go home NOW."


You are fighting for your mother's life... it may be only a few days or weeks... but lying in a hospital being poked, prodded, and frightened isn't something you'd allow them to do to your dog. Let her go home and watch the telly and sleep in her chair and look at the old photo albums. And DON'T call the flying squad (911 rescue) when she hits the crisis point. Give her pain meds and call the hospice nurse, then sit quietly holding her hand.

Paula
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Old 01-21-2006, 02:26 PM   #20
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Re: Mum...

... Well sadly We don't live 4ever..., but I gotta admit Mum has had a good time in Her life, Has lots of Friends, hardly been ill, always put us First, never smoked since the late '60s... seldom drinks, but She sure can TALK 4 England, LOL, Guess I take after Her... LOL, When My Mid Bruv was in the Royal Navy, in the mid '60s, My Mum threw some great parties, 4 His home commings, infact one year We had over 40 Sailors, & a few were American as well, The local Police Bobby used 2 call on us 2 quiet us down a bit... Hee Hee, U should have seen Him on His Bicycle.. it was winter & quite cold, so a warm COFFEE worked wonders... So did the WHISKEY what was in it...LOL.
The problem with Mum, & so many Mature Folk is that they R frightened & blinded by science... A doctor is usualy some one who can B trusted & knows best, so Mum has probably jus gone along with Him, Her, jus 2 get some peace & 2B polite... She hates 2 much fuss & fallin out... She's very Vunerable, to whats goin 2 happen 2 Her in all these tests She still gotta have, She jus wants 2 get them over with... Her eyes have decided 2 play tricks on Her now, She says they keep goin dim, & blurey, with or without Her glasses... so agn further tests, Mor upsettin 4 Her...
Yr right U kn... NO one will 4ever... & folk Die every day, other peoples Folk that is... but when it happens in yr own household...it's kinda Hard, hard 4 everyone, specialy if Yr close as I am 2 them... I'm acceptin it & prepared 4 the worse, With Her bad heart, diabetic & this cancerous secret lump She got... but We realy tryin 2 get Her HOME, Home where She belongs, it's no good treatin Her if Her will 2 live is goin, I can C the sadness in Her eyes, almost pleadin Me 2 help Her, I dearly wish I could, We ALL DO... something IS wrong, I can feel it, but NO-ONE sayin anything... What the Hell U supposed 2 say 2Her ?, H Ya Mum, how U feelin, Yea sure, She'll knock My head off 4 being clever... so agn We jus sit there n NOD & mutter & wish We were somewhere else... I took Her some Biscuits 2day, the Nurse took them away, can't have those... Y not I shouted... because they R bad 4 HER... Hey it's COMFORT FOOD I said, but My pittyful voice fell on deaf ears... sod Her I said, & slipped Mum ANOTHER packet, whisperin on the top of My voice, as She quite deaf... Shh Don't tell anyone... & don't hide them in Yr slippers these R4 EATIN, not 4 pretendin Yr walkin on the shingle beach...Bless Her, She asked Me 2 pass Her the LOOKIN GLASS, now My Nanna ( Mum's Mum ) used 2 say that a long, long time ago...& She was 84 when She passed over, I never heard Mum call it that B4... Strange, But not2worry...
Well time 2 go bk 2 C Her now... so once agn, many, Many thanks 4 Yr vry kind words... I hope U don't think I'm a coward or a softy or what ever... it's jus a lesson I gotta learn in My lifetime, so Yr advice IS precious 2 Me...Thank You...Chris.....
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:33 PM   #21
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My mother's picture

My mother had a professional photographer do her picture about 5 years ago. It surprised both my sister and I as she will normally squeeze a nickel until the buffalo poops in her hand....

Later she confessed that she thought it was AWFUL how most women get their obituaries done with high school portraits... with those awful skinny eyebrows or old fashioned hairdos, and butterfly framed glasses. She's going to have a decent picture, thank you very much.

Of course the other sad and funny part was that she just hated the portraits. If you saw them you'd think she was 60 at most (actually taken when she was almost 80) - but they were a shock to her. She didn't realize she looked that old.

It's VERY difficult to ask... But maybe you DO just have to say, "Mum how long DO you want to live?" Most folks will respond with "I want to live as long as I can get about, enjoy my food and keep my mind clear."

You don't have to be brutal and say well that might be six months then.. but with that statement, you first get the doctor to tell you his/her best guess on how likely ANY agressive treatment will help meet that goal.

Next you, the doctor AND your mom to discuss whether it might actually be better to do a few very mild adjustments to her current medications... go home... forget medical science and enjoy whatever you can enjoy. You aren't going to live forever, but you'll probably do just as well if we DON'T muck about with your insides too much. Good pain management, and good home support will probably do as much good as anything else.

Go not gently into that good night .... makes a lot of sense when you're 30 or 50. At 80+ gentleness is about all we have to offer.

Will be thinking of you and sending you good Karma.

Paula
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Old 01-22-2006, 02:05 AM   #22
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Oh dear...

Well...its Sunday morning, been up all nite, thinkin, kikkin Myself, & jus had so much coffee I feel quite ill... But not2worry (N2W)... Hospital visit did'nt exactly go down 2 well last nite... This here Secret lump has now turned out 2B as big as a tennis ball... Mum also got pains in Her eyes, High blood preasure Slow Heart beat, diabetic N goodness knws what else... & Mum still smiling & insisting there is Nothing wrong with Her, OK then, Y can't She come HOME where She belongs... Oh NO She's far 2 ILL... Yr Mother HAS got 2GO 2 a specialist Hospital 4 Cancer treatment... over 20 miles away... Now that's where it all starts, it's one of those places where the Doc's do ALL the proddin n pokin & fill Her up with drugs until they admit there is Nothing left 2 Do 4 Her, so they stick Her in a home where She ends up being jus like the wallpaper... I think not, so agn, Here We go, another meetin with the so called Know-it-alls... Why they can't leave Her alone...I kn, I kn...If they can make Her live 4 another day, but at what cost, More PAIN, more things She affraid of...tons of drugs that jus make Her freak out, Make us ALL freak out... Her face was pleading last nite, kinda askin us ALL 2 do something, Do WHAT... We jus don't kn what 2 do 4 Her...We wanna help Her, We cant even cuddle Her, She's in so much pain... But She knws We there 4 Her & Love Her... Time is jus an agonisin period...Chris.....
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:48 PM   #23
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Hospice

Chris - find a HOSPICE nurse. Get to a doctor in a lounge or office AWAY from your mother and throw a screaming nelly of a fit. (or just print this out and make him/her read it).

Demand a HOSPICE nurse or doctor be called in for a consultation. Here in the states we actually have people who specialize in "pain management". Insist that your mother will make NO decisions until her pain is under control.

However painful it is, if your mother hasn't been declared incompetent to make her own medical decisions, she can't be misled or left out of any final decisions - but if you are able to pound some sense into the doctors you will get them to see the following:

1) your mum is "eager to please" and is "in awe of anything in a white coat". She will FAIL to consider her own rights and obey any suggestion from a doctor even if it causes her suffering and actually shortens her life

2) your mum is also in denial - she hasn't got the ability to face the fact that she needs to make end of life choices. (You may be able to get her to talk about this as an eventuality IF you and the doctor can convince her that it is a new government regulation that has to be discussed with every patient over 50.... If you have the "living will" concept over there, you might even discuss doing YOURS and hers at the same time.)

3) Her denial is complicated by her being disoriented by being away from her home, by being poked and prodded and questioned by doctors and nurses who are using medical jargon she doesn't even comprehend.

4) She is in PAIN - to the point where it will NEVER be possible to get a lucid thoughtful response from her until that pain is relieved. You don't ask a torture victim to make good choices.
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:17 PM   #24
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Translation from American to British?

Paula is exactly right above, though I fear British Medical Service may have differing perspective on "Hospice Care" than most states in US have adopted...

As difficult as it is for family, Hospice Care means literally that "curing" has been dropped as a cause, and palliative or pain management and caring for the person who is ill and their "well-being" becomes the primary objective.. As such, once Hospice care has been chosen, treatments like radiation, surgeries or chemo-therapy are stopped, and 100% attention is focused on managing pain and the remaining quality of life, time with family, friends, etc. It can be done at home or in a hospice facility in the States, and most forms of "medical insurance" will usually pay for up to 6 months of care, since it is less expensive than the poking and prodding and exotic treatments... Tragically, some facilities wish to continue exotic treatments because they are authorized and profitable, even if pointless...

Sounds like someone in medical service having trouble admitting curing this illness no longer reasonable, and escalation to higher authorities in hospital might help. Our prayers remain with you and family, and good luck!

John McG
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Old 01-26-2006, 01:57 AM   #25
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Thank You ALL...

... Jus 2 let U kn Mom is at HOME 4a few days peace n rest, then She goes away 2 Sheffield 4 a few weeks treatment, why they want 2 make Her suffer more We'll never kn, but I guess they kn best...or do they ?...so once agn,Thank U all 4 Yr kind words & support... THANKS...Chris & Family.....
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:14 AM   #26
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I don't know how things work in the UK; however, as a geriatric RN here in the States, I want to put my 2 cents in here. Your mum doesn't HAVE to go to have treatment is she chooses not to. If she wants to remain at home, get her a HOSPICE nurse to provide pain management and let her live out what time she has left the way she wants with dignity and peace. Can they force her to get treatment over there? I know here we have the right to refuse treatment. Once you are in the hospital you loose some rights, but she's at home so let her make whatever decision SHE WANTS. I hope they can't force her into treatments that will make her last days painful and degrading. Please look in to alternatives for her. I don't know what you may call hospice over there, but surely you have some type of service comparable to what we have here.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:46 AM   #27
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:36 PM   #28
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Special Unit...

Hi All, jus 2 let U kn Mom has now gone in2 the Special cancer Hospital, 30 miles away from home, She has 2 undergo a lttl surgery 2 drain off her secret lump, as She calls it, at this stage We do not kn what the outcome will B... as She needs a lot of special care & treatment... Thank U ALL 4 Yr support & vry kind words...Chris & Family.....
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