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Old 03-15-2008, 12:12 PM   #15
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I nearly cvaused the sun to set on one cyclist's empire when we were on US 64 towing Bettha, came down a hill, around a curve, and there he was--in the middle of the lane. We were only doing about 50 at the time, I missed him by inches.
Yes, they have the right, but they can be dead right.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by safari62
and if you are travelling at a speed around a corner where you may not be able to react to something around that curve you are probably going too fast.
I disagree entirely. I support bikes on the road and drive very carefully around them, but on our twisty country road where the speed limit is 50, and I come around a corner to find a bike struggling to go uphill maybe doing 10 in the middle of the lane, they are just lucky they don't get killed. There are some places that bikes just shouldn't be ridden. Hilly, twisty country roads with poor visibility is one of them.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:44 PM   #17
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Wonder if anyone got 13 and also saw the bear? I doubt it. I agree there are many many many rude drivers out there. But there are a lot of rude cyclists also. The road in front of my house is a main artery and also has a separate bike path 20 feet off the road. I have seen bikers riding in the road during rush hour holding up traffic flow. I mean come on, how rude can you get? Oh well, such is life
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by safari62
How much does that actually happen?
Sorry, it happens all the time. This is not a city street but a busy country highway with lots of traffic going both directions. The bikers could easily ride two abreast on the paved shoulder and if they did we would all be a lot happier. They, as you, seem to feel that they have the right of way over everyone else. Its Dangerous!
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari62
I think this post exposes your preference for being behind the wheel and not on the bike. Sharing means bikes can use the road also and not just the edge of the road, espesially on a small country road where a bike can get up the speed. Why should the rider try to stay close to the edge and risk going off the edge and crashing just to make room for the motorist?
and if you are travelling at a speed around a corner where you may not be able to react to something around that curve you are probably going too fast.
It is an odd phenomema the makes the driver of a large vehicle more aggressive towards bicycles, and even smaller cars and motorcycles. Even if you do not ride a bicycle, Just drive around a small car for one day and feel what it is like to be undersized.
I say check your own attitude while driving as you come upon a bicyclist next time....feeling a little aggressive and put upon because they are on YOUR road?
that is the problem.
And stupid dangerous is trying to pass when there is not enough room....too close to the rider, or at a upcoming hill in the lane of other cars. Want to see STUPID? ride on a bike and watch the drivers.
But why should the vehicle have to WAIT? They own the road after all!
So following your logic regarding curves, since the typical speed traveled by a bicyclist (at least in our CIBA group) is about 20 to 35 miles per hour, we shouldn't approach any blind curves at more than that? There are stupid drivers and there are stupid riders. They are usually easy to spot both on the road and on the internet.

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Old 03-15-2008, 01:29 PM   #20
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I'm fascinated by how the responses are in two categories:
First, and predominately, a slightly veiled "I wish they wouldn't ride on roads I drive on", and second, a much better appreciation of what the PSA is intending to get across: as a species we aren't as observant as we think we are. The fact that it was sponsored by a cycling group is immaterial. It could just as well have been sponsored by a motorcycle group, an aircraft pilots association, or J.B. Hunt.

As far as going around blind corners at speed, I'm appalled at some of the thoughts. When I was 16, my parents convinced me to get a 750cc motorcycle, and attempted to teach me some useful paranoia. As a general rule, I assume there will be gravel on each corner, a broken down cement truck over each blind rise, and a deer ready to jump out behind each tree.

When I was flying sailplanes, many of the pilots in my club had participated in the recent unpleasantness in Southeast Asia. "Always leave yourself an out" was what they preached. "Never, ever allow yourself to get in a situation where you have no alternatives." I considered this good advice, doubly so coming from a former Wild Weasel pilot - both Thuds and F-4's.

As far as the cycling aspect of this goes, I've seen both sides. I lack about 800 miles of having crossed the country twice north to south and once east to west (and gone a time zone east of Maine to boot). Believe me when I say that the two scariest things on the road are a teen ager in an expensive car and an RV in the mountains.

Re-reading a couple of the responses on this thread, I'd like to note that nothing is worse than coming down a mountain pass at 45mph, rounding a corner and seeing an RV slowing to 15 for each switchback. They should have more sense than to be on the road. I don't mind that RV's are on the road, but they shouldn't ever be allowed in mountainous or hilly areas.

Of course I don't really believe that. There is room enough for all. And we all need some slack from each other from time to time. Occasionally, I take two lanes to make a 90 degree turn while pulling the Airstream.

Sometimes, believe it or not, other people say exactly the same things about RV's that a couple of people here are saying about legal, tax paying, road users. I pull at about 60mph, and am certain that I have been soundly cursed for doing so in a 70mph zone.

As far as the shoulder... Sometimes they're good. Sometimes they have a surprising amount of gravel, broken glass, and debris. This can change on a week to week basis.
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
I nearly cvaused the sun to set on one cyclist's empire when we were on US 64 towing Bettha, came down a hill, around a curve, and there he was--in the middle of the lane. We were only doing about 50 at the time, I missed him by inches.
Yes, they have the right, but they can be dead right.
I agree. For bicyclist to demand their right to ride on a highway or busy city artery is a bit disingenuous. You really have to look at the context. It's like someone coming onto the highway going very slowly (throw in while talking on their cell phone) and almost causing an accident from cars trying to avoid them. Reminds me of the saying, "lead, follow or get out of the way".

Yup, cars DO own the road, that's why roads were built the way they were. Licensing fees pay for the right to use those roads. I agree the roads need to be shared responsibly and to me (even when I'm riding), that means yield to the big guys.

Yeah, I saw the bear. Made me loose count.
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:42 PM   #22
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I agree we are getting farther and farther from the point of the PSA, which is that people are not as observant as they think. I believe I have seen the bear example used to point out how unreliable eye-witness testimony can be as well.
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:47 PM   #23
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See

Sometimes you only see what you want to see. This is how I can spot an Airstream a mile away at 70 mph.
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:49 PM   #24
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99.9% of the time it's the motorist. I just got in from a ride. Group of four single file on the shoulder, guy laying on the horn for a good 1/2 mile to let us know his IQ. Wife riding alone on another country road has some guy flipping her the bird with both hands. Why? Because she's a cyclist and on the road. I've been hit by a flying soda bottle, and, unidentified liquids. I had some one drive up from behind with the rear passenger door open in an attempt to take me out. I can't count the times some coward has swerved close trying to make a statement.
Around here it's two main groups of losers that are the aggressive ones. Disgruntled old farts. The same ones who feel free to express their opinons whenever and wherever. Losing the battle to E.D. I guess. And, rednecks and redneckettes of any age.
Next time you see a cyclist on the road, offer them a blessing. Say to yourself " God bless you." " There, were it not for my lard laden butt and my emphysematous lungs, go I." Offer them a drink of water. Show them your not the stereotypic motorist. You know the one's. "I'm an American in my big car with surround sound and power everything. I have my rights. Get the hell out of my way. How dare you slow me down. Go get on the trail or something."
Oh, and forget most shoulders. They are full of glass and debris. And bike trails, there is no such thing. They are paths with dog walkers, skaters, joggers, little kids and you name it. A great place to get injured while riding.

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Old 03-15-2008, 02:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon

Yup, cars DO own the road, that's why roads were built the way they were. Licensing fees pay for the right to use those roads. I agree the roads need to be shared responsibly and to me (even when I'm riding), that means yield to the big guys.

...
So... the heavy trucks own more of the road? They pay an awful lot more in taxes, and have a really active lobby so maybe it's so?
But supposing it's as you say, and it's only people with private autos who really own the road, I pay taxes on the 1500HD, so do I get some too, say just a little more than my Prius driving friends? Cool. How about if I'm not driving the Chevy at the time? (actually, I believe my property line goes to the middle of the street, so I do own some road, for all the good it does me).

These rules should be spelled out, like in the law where we find this:
Quote:
A person riding a bicycle upon a roadway has all of the rights and
duties under this article that are applicable to a person who
drives a vehicle [specific exceptions & limitations follow]
That's what I was driving at (bad pun), we all depend - occasionally - on the good graces of others. Others whose views on vehicles we may not particularly like - and they us.
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:17 PM   #26
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the psa is cute.

it demonstrates that if you FOCUS on one thing, other stuff can be missed.

MOST drivers aren't focused on ANYTHING while driving...

unless it's the cheeseburger or phone or makeup being applied.

as a cyclist who normally pedals MORE MILES per year than he drives...

i've got a dead bikers view of the road.

many cyclist, newbies especially but also experienced riders, break the law by running reds and stops and so on...

PAVED SHOULDERS are not bike lanes, anymore than they are traffic lanes.

unless local traffic code states otherwise, riding ON THE SHOULDER isn't correct.

riders ARE SUPPOSED TO RIDE IN THE LANE...

drivers are supposed to SLOW down until safe to pass and cyclists are supposed to yield when it is safe to do so...

riding IN the lane is the preferred position. riding close to the shoulder only encourages drivers to brush/squeeze past...

on 2 lanes roads there needs to be a lot of 'giving' from both cyclists and drivers...

on 4 lane roads "taking a lane" is the preferred and LEGAL riding position...

on narrow twisty roads,

...with a right bending curve, staying near center lane, means the overtaking cars "SEE" the cyclist sooner...

...while on left bending curves, moving toward the shoulder means an earlier view for the drivers...

cyclist pay user fees too. most have cars, buy fuel, own property and so on....

the modern u.s. highway system developed FROM bicycle roadways, check the history of our roads and who came first.

MORE CYCLIST ARE KILLED OR INJURED riding on the shoulder, in the breakdown lane or on 'multiuse trails' than ON/IN the traffic lane.

bikers aren't blocking traffic, the ARE TRAFFIC.

car drivers who "THINK" they know where the bikes should be are fat, dumb, ciggy smoking, idiots with a selfish narrow view of the world...

do i have an opinion?

they are also often IMPAIRED by drugs, booze, visual limits and poor driving skills.

my approach to riding has always been, I'M INVISIBLE to everyone else...

bright clothes, lights, rear view mirrors, reflectors, flags and other stuff i use only helps a tiny bit...

and to some drivers just makes me a better target.

pretending to be an invisible superhero, who is 100% vulnerable to everything around me...

is the only thing that works...

and i try never to ride CLOSE TO THE DANCING BEARS...

cheers
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:32 PM   #27
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...
and i try never to ride CLOSE TO THE DANCING BEARS...
...
Dude, you rock!
edit: MR RedSHED speaking. He didn't notice I was logged on.
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
as a cyclist who normally pedals MORE MILES per year than he drives...
i've got a dead bikers view of the road. many cyclist, newbies especially but also experienced riders, break the law by running reds and stops and so on...
PAVED SHOULDERS are not bike lanes, anymore than they are traffic lanes.
unless local traffic code states otherwise, riding ON THE SHOULDER isn't correct.
riders ARE SUPPOSED TO RIDE IN THE LANE...
drivers are supposed to SLOW down until safe to pass and cyclists are supposed to yield when it is safe to do so...
riding IN the lane is the preferred position. riding close to the shoulder only encourages drivers to brush/squeeze past...
on 2 lanes roads there needs to be a lot of 'giving' from both cyclists and drivers...

MORE CYCLIST ARE KILLED OR INJURED riding on the shoulder, in the breakdown lane or on 'multiuse trails' than ON/IN the traffic lane.
bikers aren't blocking traffic, the ARE TRAFFIC.
car drivers who "THINK" they know where the bikes should be are fat, dumb, ciggy smoking, idiots with a selfish narrow view of the world...
do i have an opinion?
they are also often IMPAIRED by drugs, booze, visual limits and poor driving skills.
my approach to riding has always been, I'M INVISIBLE to everyone else...
bright clothes, lights, rear view mirrors, reflectors, flags and other stuff i use only helps a tiny bit...
and to some drivers just makes me a better target.
pretending to be an invisible superhero, who is 100% vulnerable to everything around me...is the only thing that works...
and i try never to ride CLOSE TO THE DANCING BEARS...
cheers
2air'
At last, some humor. I for one have never tried to see how close I can shave it with a biker. I have never laid on the horn, given the international gesture of ill will, with one or even two fingers, and don't feel their Lance Armstrong pants are targets.

I have however been peeved when I have had to follow bikers who will not give way, several miles on two-lane country highways where the traffic is too heavy to pass.

We have a group where I live who call themselves "Roadies". Ever heard that term. Their goal evidentely, is to establish their dominance on our highways. I think that this struggle can get very dangerous for all concerned.

Couple of years ago, an old friend of mine was following a female biker down a coutry black top road with his pick-up truck and trailer. He waited until he felt he could pass safely, but as he passed she swerved into the lane and was struck by his mirror and killed. He is still devasted. He lost his liscense for five years and the woman's family all came and told him they didn't hold any ill feelings toward him. But still, he is suffering from it.

Let's all use some caution!
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