Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-18-2012, 01:57 PM   #43
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,135
Images: 33
Gene, Picked a foam egg crate topper up last week, going to be trying it out this long weekend. Tired of sleeping on the hard as rock couch.
__________________

__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:06 PM   #44
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
jackson center , Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Because not everyone is as lucky as you, plus, everything can be improved.

Glad you had a good night's sleep. We sleep well in ours too (after we added a foam topper to the OEM mattress—another suggestion there).

Gene
Pillow top mattresses became available on 2012 models.
__________________

__________________
Schu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:27 PM   #45
Rivet Master
 
RangerJay's Avatar
 
2002 19' Bambi
Northwestern Ontario , - on the backside of the map and just above the big green spot
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 818
Images: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schu View Post
FYI some improvements that have been implemented.-All inside and exterior holes in the aluminum side walls are routed out on a CNC router before they are installed on the trailer including the windows.
End shell seams and segments have black gasket tape between segments. Lights and exterior components are installed using gaskets.
The eyebrows for the windows have been changed to a design that caps over the window frame to reduce chance of leaks.New window gaskets material has been designed and implemented for a better window fit and coated with to help reduce window sticking.
Main door hinge pins have been modified to accept a C clip to prevent pins from backing out.Main door thresholds are now made out of aluminum extrusion and new contour for a better fit.
Have added exterior LP out let for gas grille.
All exterior lights are now LED.
Upgrade castings at marker lights for Classic trailers.
Classic pull out drawer redesigned.
Bike racks now available.
Testing 16" Michelin Tires on Eddie Bauer trailers.
Improved aluminum dinnette table legs
All trailers have lino--no carpet.
No press wood floors--all plywood with water sealant arouns all floor openings and 10" wide around perimeter.
Aluminum foil insulation between plywood floor and frame.All edges of floors and underbelly are caulked.
to high lite a few.
Schu,

Thanks a lot for this - it is very helpful, encouraging and an indication that you are listening.

But it might be smart to get off the defensive ......

This type of forum - not because we are a bunch of bad guys - but simply by the nature of the beast - will never allow you to do that.

Although Airforums is one way to collect information about your product - it is probably among the worst if you want to use it as a decision-making tool - information is at best fragmented, unstructured, unorganized, shoot-from-the-hip "stuff" - a lot of it mixed in with high emotion and varying levels of knowledge/expertise/experience. I suppose if someone had a lot of spare time and an inclination to subject themselves to some serious mental pain and anguish they might sort it out - maybe ..... but the best you are going to get is an indication of the level of the emotion behind the comments - the bigger issues people are having - and a lot of one-off ideas and gripes .....

Having said that ......

You do need to involve your customer:

- You have a customer base that wants to be engaged - and in fact are screaming to be heard.
- You have a customer base that is intensely loyal.
- You have a customer base the is looking forward to improvements in the product and in the quality of its manufacturing process.
- You have a customer base that, despite some serioius issues, has no inclination to simply "go away" ......


So ..... a couple of suggestions .....
  • find a meaningful way to get all of your built in customer base actively involved in a positive and formal way:
    • measure quality control issues, customer satisfaction levels, warranty issues - whatever.
    • go back as far as you can.
  • provide a mechanism that gets you to measure the information you need to help make your decisions on improving your product in a way that meshes with the input of your customer base.
    • maintain this mechanism as a standing operational item
    • this is incredibly easy to do - and is not time or cost heavy - services like Survey Gizmo (there are a bunch of others) are easy to set up, provide huge flexibility in being able to sort, interpret and track information.
  • you be the one to provide feedback to your customer on an annual basis:
    • here's what you told us:
      • what you liked
      • what you didn't like
      • what you want
    • here's how we are responding:
      • what we are changing
      • how we are improving
      • what we're looking at over the long haul
Put yourselves in the drivers seat and take charge of this issue - if you are serious about manufacturing and selling a premium product then there is absolutely nothing negative that can grow out of involving your customer base and keeping them informed - if you do it in a meaningful way ..... and intend to listen .....

..... and thanks for taking the time to respond here ..... it really is appreciated.




Jay
__________________
Bambi - 2002 (The Toaster)
Pathfinder - 2009 (The Buggy)

"I'm not young enough to know everything ....."
(Oscar Wilde)
RangerJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:35 PM   #46
Rivet Master
 
danlehosky's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Gig Harbor , Washington
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 780
Schu, My 2012 25FC did not have a pillowtop mattress. Since you are saying it should have had one would you be willing to reinburse me for the Sensus topper I had to buy so I could get a good rest?
__________________
TAC
Hope is not a plan.
danlehosky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:35 PM   #47
Rivet Master
 
Goal15's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Dallas , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,673
Images: 1
Schu:

Not that it is the end all and be all of customer feedback but you might take a look at Dell Computer's IdeaStorm model as a way to engage AS customers.

Idea Storm

Dana
__________________
Dana and Olga
2006 Safari 23
2011 Tundra Double Cab
Goal15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
Foiled Again's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Vintage Kin Owner
Virginia Beach , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,883
interior lights in 25 FB SE - the living room and hallway are all on one switch - if one person is reading or watching TV in the living area, the lights in the bath/shower corridor are also on - making it hard for a second person to sleep in the bedroom. How about 1 more switch so the hall could be turned on/off at will?

And of course a Nyloboard floor option at least!

Paula
__________________
Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
Foiled Again is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #49
3 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
jackson center , Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Schu (a/k/a Dave),

Thanks for posting and updating us on current practices. I appreciate your presence here and hope no one decides to attack you. In my dealings with Airstream I have always found Schu helpful and friendly. As most reading here know, I have not been sparing on my criticism of Thor or Airstream, but Schu has been fine to work with.

I have some questions and comments:

1. I think a "CNC router" is automated and computer controlled. Is that correct?

2. I was aware of some of the gaskets being used and hope they are of high quality. How about at all other penetrations and seams? Seems if it is a good idea in those places mentioned, it should work elsewhere.

3. The threshold on ours is wood—looks like oak. When I replaced the flooring, I had to cut the threshold to accommodate the increase in floor height. Wood is a lot easier to cut for most of us than metal, so I'm glad I have wood and unconvinced this is a good upgrade considering how many people replace flooring.

4. You and I discussed using Michelins about 3 years ago. I suggested it is a better LT tire than Wranglers and other LT tires. And you may know from following the Forums that those who go to 16" generally prefer Michelins. I realize Michelins are more expensive than most of their competitors, but this seems to be a good way to go, and I hope Airstream joins the Michelin fans soon. My test shows 24,000 miles with Michelin LTX's, little wear, and they don't lose air like Marathons did. Others on the Forum have had similar results.

5. Glad to see improvement in dinette table leg. Ours seems to be low quality and on one trip to JC the screws ripped out of the table—the table appeared to be fiberboard of some sort with a melamine facing on the bottom. It was fixed with oversized screws and lasted 'til I replaced the table this spring. Has there been a fix to prevent screws ripping out?

6. Linoleum is a very good product and I hope it is true linoleum. Some manufacturers and retailers sell vinyl as linoleum and they are very different. Here's the "but"—is this a sheet product and is it installed first and then the partitions and cabinets put on top of it? If done this way, the labor is very small, but the results are not good for the customer. With vinyl, below zero (F) temps cause the vinyl to develop humps as the trailer contracts more than the vinyl. The fix for this in our bathroom was to cut a thin strip out along the cabinet and install quarter round over the space—the hump disappeared. Afterward we developed humps by the kitchen cabinet and under the dinette table. I ripped out the vinyl and put in a new floor. Flooring (with a very few exceptions) is supposed to have a space between it and partitions and cabinets for expansion/contraction. Perhaps linoleums contracts at the same rate as the trailer body, but I doubt it. When you have to cut flooring in such a small space as a trailer and provide for expansion/contraction, it is easier to use tiles or planks than sheeting. All this requires trim to be installed and I realize that increases labor and materials costs, but is the right way to do it. So,
a. Are you providing for expansion/contraction?
b. Are you using sheet, plank, or tiles?
c. Gluing the flooring, or floating it with locking planks or tiles (floating is easier to replace)?

7. Caulking edges of plywood subfloor is different than using a sealant. Many sealants have been discussed on another thread—and using something that absorbs onto the plywood to fill the air spaces was particularly interesting, though I have no other knowledge of it. Would using sealant around the edges and the faces of the plywood be better over the long run.

8. I realize the use of OSB for subfloors didn't last for very long and was not in all models, but over the years people have assumed it was for a long time and every model. Could you inform us on what years and what models to help clear this up?

Gene
The last trailer with OSB flooring was 2006

The edge of the fllor fits into a u shaped channel and not easily caulked to size of cavity.The exterior seem is sealed at edge of side sheet and underbelly.

We use several floor coverings --most are vinyl --stapled and glued around perimeter per manufacturer.

Tabled leg is still screwed when installed correctly works.

The side walls are routed using computer program.

We will see how the threshold is accepted.
__________________
Schu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 03:07 PM   #50
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Thank you Schu for your concern. I believe it is genuine and we appreciate that very much.

doug k
__________________
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 04:20 PM   #51
Rivet Master
 
Fly at Night's Avatar
 
2010 27' FB Flying Cloud
Fraser Valley , British Columbia
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,693
Images: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Because not everyone is as lucky as you, plus, everything can be improved.

Glad you had a good night's sleep. We sleep well in ours too (after we added a foam topper to the OEM mattress—another suggestion there).

Gene
Gene,

In all seriousness, if quality comes down to nothing more than luck, your suggestion box is a good idea.

Unless I am dead tired, I will often wake up in the middle of the night because it feels like my hip bones are digging into concrete. One of those foam mattress toppers is on my "buy" list.

Paula, if one is in the BR and another in the lounge watching TV, those ceiling lights do not have to be on. There are three smaller lights above the dinette and one above the sink and stove. Amy one of those lights would give illumination w/o keeping the person in the BR up. I seldom have the ceiling lights on unless it is pitch-black outside and I am cooking or reading. Otherwise, I prefer a more subdued atmosphere. Those lights I mentioned work well in that respect. I have even seen some photos where Airstreamers have put a small bedside-type table lamp on the dinette table or on a small table in the lounge. Those lamps give a nice soft glow.
__________________
easily distracted by shiny objects
Fly at Night is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 06:28 PM   #52
Rivet Master
 
mefly2's Avatar
 
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Western , ** Big Sky Country ** Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,283
Don't put the propane tank covers on crooked; the backwards "tilt" into the electric jack is accentuated by the front angle of the AS ... why even have a cut out in the tank cover for the battery box if it is not used? It is not up to the design and styling of an otherwise classic TT.

It cheapens the excellent workmanship on our new AS and makes the cover unit look like it was resurrected from the junk yard.
__________________
mefly2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 10:01 PM   #53
2 Rivet Member
 
hellsbay's Avatar
 
2009 16' DWR
Venice , Florida
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 44
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 2
I have had my Bambi DWR for about 6 months and still smile every time I look at it or sit in it. I do have some suggestions. I am more interested in spending my time in wild America than in a trailer park. I think there are allot of us, especially the folks with smaller trailers. With smaller engines and vehicles for towing, it would be nice to see AS take the lead in the small trailer, boon docking, off the grid market.

I would like an outside compartment with a door and space for two slide out group 27 AGM batteries.

It would be nice to have more clearance in the wheel well. Maybe for 16 inch 10 ply tires.

Why fool around with a TV antenna when you should just put a King Dome on the roof and be done.

My subwoofer feeds back to the rear speakers. When I asked AS tech about that he said just put a filter in. Why wouldn't AS have done that at the factory from the start for a $48,000 16 foot trailer?

I was up on the roof and noticed that the grey water vent needed to be resealed. When I cleaned the old seal off I found that they factory used too much force when they installed the vent and broke the flange when one of the screws was put in. I ordered a new one and when it arrived, it was half the thickness and weight of the old one and very flimsy. The screw holes did not match either. I just used the old one after all and resealed it.

I am in the process of having the cushions recovered. The originals, while cool looking, attract dog hair like a magnet.

The covering on the doors under the bed is coming unglued. Also on in the front under the dinnette. My kids have cheap furniture that lasted longer than this.

Airstream is an American icon and I love mine. I just wish that some of that American exceptionalism could be put to use by Thor so that the tradition continues. It almost seems like the really technical innovations that I see on other trailers and RVs has passed AS by.

On the more positive side, I am glad to see that they are improving some things. I just don't know if it is enough to allow AS to be the symbol of quality and innovation that it was in the past. I really like the inside design. It is light and airy and does not give me the feeling I am in a cave.
__________________
Hellsbay
Gun control is not about guns..., it's about control
hellsbay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 10:51 PM   #54
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,266
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefly2 View Post
Don't put the propane tank covers on crooked; the backwards "tilt" into the electric jack is accentuated by the front angle of the AS ... why even have a cut out in the tank cover for the battery box if it is not used? It is not up to the design and styling of an otherwise classic TT.

It cheapens the excellent workmanship on our new AS and makes the cover unit look like it was resurrected from the junk yard.
Hi, do you mean like this.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2009 491RS.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	307.2 KB
ID:	161344  
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 10:59 PM   #55
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,266
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefly2 View Post
Don't put the propane tank covers on crooked; the backwards "tilt" into the electric jack is accentuated by the front angle of the AS ... why even have a cut out in the tank cover for the battery box if it is not used? It is not up to the design and styling of an otherwise classic TT.

It cheapens the excellent workmanship on our new AS and makes the cover unit look like it was resurrected from the junk yard.
Hi, well I fixed mine so my tank cover sits on the frame and is as level as possible. I put some vinyl trim on the bottom of the tank cover so it wouldn't rub the paint off of my frame. I pushed my tank cover's front edge off of the top of the tongue jack flange, onto the frame. I used some angle aluminum, attached to the battery box hinge, to hold the cover straight and so it would not interfere with my battery box lid.

You might have to enlarge the second picture to see the aluminum angle that I installed.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7833RS.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	242.8 KB
ID:	161345   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7834RS.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	286.2 KB
ID:	161346  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7832RS.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	256.5 KB
ID:	161347  
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 05:27 AM   #56
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

"I was up on the roof and noticed that the grey water vent needed to be resealed. When I cleaned the old seal off I found that they factory used too much force when they installed the vent and broke the flange when one of the screws was put in. I ordered a new one and when it arrived, it was half the thickness and weight of the old one and very flimsy. The screw holes did not match either. I just used the old one after all and resealed it."

YEP......take ALL power screwdrivers off the assembly line, or possibly some training in how to use them, some caulking gun training is also in order. Oh...and don't forget the dimpled rivet craters.

BTW...we DO go up on the roof, so care should be taken in how stuff is installed/done in all the out of sight places.


Maybe buy another "shop vac" and assign someone to it, or just do what Mom said and "clean-up after yourself."

New mission statement....."Just do it better"

Bob
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.