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Old 09-04-2005, 07:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Craftsman
He sure comes off as an idiot with an abismal enviormental policy. He cut funding for work on the levies by 80%. How did we the people let it happen? Work on the levies have been ongoing for 300 years, the oldest public works project in the U.S. The area flooded the year after the French settled it. What should have been learned is don't build cities below sea level, especially on the coast and then cut the funding thats necessary to protect them. The Federal government is as responsible as Stae government.
I believe that your blame would also include Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter....Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman and the King of Democrats, FDR as idiots with abismal enviromental policy.....yes?
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:01 PM   #16
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And the winner is..........

Think about it guys. This was a government project. It went to the lowest bidder. Like everything else. Including the space shuttle.

What did you want - a warrantee?
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:10 PM   #17
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dscluchfc, outstanding post! Bravo!
Yes, indeed!
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:22 PM   #18
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Craftsman,

You are dead on about the Corp. There is a water shed in eastern ohio that more or less runs from Pittsburgh to Akron and into southern ohio. It is millions of acres that is called the Muskingham Water Shed. The corp is proposing to charge every house, apt, building,etc., in this water shed $12 per year for the next 20 years or so for the maintenance of the system.

What are the republicans who are in the majority in congress doing with all of the taxes we send to Washington? They can't maintain the national parks (fees) & a lot of them don't open on time or close early. They can't maintain the dams, waterways, etc. that are typically federal projects.

I understand the frustration and backlash against the demos but, in 11 years, 1994 to 2005, the republicans have gone from balancing the budget to spending money like a bunch of drunken sailors (excuse the comparison vets). They are now part of the problem not the solution.
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:51 PM   #19
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Excuse me, but may I drag this thread back on topic?

We saw a mobile kitchen on I-10 heading east outside Palm Springs - we expect it's on its way to a refugee center. It wasn't commercial - no logos or anything - looked pretty utilitarian - Just said, "Mobile Kitchen" in plain letters on the side.
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Old 09-04-2005, 09:01 PM   #20
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We saw a mobile kitchen on I-10 heading east outside Palm Springs - we expect it's on its way to a refugee center. It wasn't commercial - no logos or anything - looked pretty utilitarian - Just said, "Mobile Kitchen" in plain letters on the side.
I am sure it will be welcome. Eating MRE's gets pretty old very quickly. Even if they do come in five different entree choices. (maybe more now)
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Old 09-04-2005, 10:32 PM   #21
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Wjat Happened?

DiDo!!! The New Orleans mayor didn't know she could go to her state govenor and ask for the LA State National Guard to be activated and mobilized even before the huricane hit. (It's a matter of State's Rights issue). Its a matter of the govenor to ask or notify the Feds for assistance.
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Old 09-04-2005, 10:41 PM   #22
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hmsteader,

I'm so tired right now, I can't tell if you're goofing or serious. The Mayor of New Orleans is Ray Nagin, a guy, and if he didn't know that he was supposed to ask the Governor for help, then someone on his staff should have, and he shouldn't be the Mayor.

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Old 09-05-2005, 05:25 AM   #23
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dscluchfc,
Thank you for your post and comments. I couldn't agree more.

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Old 09-05-2005, 11:18 AM   #24
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DSCLUTCHFC

Thanks for a reasoned and well thought out post.

IMHO there is no amount of preparation that could have been made to protect against the widespread and massive distruction that has been visited on the Gulf Coast. There are those who will turn this into political backbiting and racially motivated finger pointing. The simple matter of fact is that this was such a huge disaster in it's width and breadth that it was impossible to know where to start. Everyone there thinks the rescue and resupply efforts should start with them. I cannot blame them for that. That is human nature. While the news media was decrying the lack of response, in the background we saw Coast Guard helicopters rescuing people right and left. What we need to do now is address the immediate problems and leave the political and racial name calling and blame placing to a later time.

The media needs to ease off the human tragedy stories (though God knows there are tens of thousands of them) and start reporting on what is being done, what is left to be done and how we can all help.
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Old 09-05-2005, 11:39 AM   #25
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Okay, I can't keep my mouth shut about the situation in New Orleans any longer:

The hurricane herself did very little damage to the Big Easy, in fact it bypassed it and hit on the LA and MS statelines, Biloxi got hit the worst. Mmmkay? The folks in New Orleans thought the worst was over after the hurricane passed.

What the hurricane did do was knock out power and communications, so the next day, when the levies started to go, there was no way for people to know what was happening unless they were up in the air in a helicopter looking down, and no way to tell emergency services in New Orleans and the people holed up in the Super Dome for instance, to evacuate before the water got too deep. It took about a day for the newsfeeds to get a handle on what was happening, and by then it was too late.

I am sure if the Mayor had the telepathic powers to know 2 days in advance (before the hurricane hit and knocked out power) that the levies were going to go, he (the LA Gov is a she) would have asked for help before communications were cut the next day.

I think people are confused about what happened to New Orleans and Gulfport, because it all hit very quickly - like they forget about the Pentagon and the 4th plane that went down in a field on 9/11, all they remember is the twin towers.

Edit: Ironically, the Fed Government says the reason their response was slow was because the city and state didn't ask in a timely manner - guess they didn't see the smoke signals.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dscluchfc
The Culture of Blame...
Lots of verbiage

---Rich Galen
Yes. And after we've given blood, money, service, supplies, and/or opened our homes, let's pretend nobody screwed up, and no one's to blame for people dying of exposure after the fact, so when this happens again - it will happen again, and we can give again and pretend again - unless of course it's our turn to be the hapless victims, then it will also be our turn to wonder why no one is helping us.
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:31 PM   #27
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Yes. And after we've given blood, money, service, supplies, and/or opened our homes, let's pretend nobody screwed up, and no one's to blame for people dying of exposure after the fact, so when this happens again - it will happen again, and we can give again and pretend again - unless of course it's our turn to be the hapless victims, then it will also be our turn to wonder why no one is helping us.
There is plenty of blame to go around. And if you think this situation is unique in any way, then tell me why less then 10 years after hurricane Andrew wiped out most of Southeast Florida, and stricter building codes were enacted, did Dade County (where most of the homes were destroyed) try to relax those codes??? It is greed, laziness, and apathy that allows this cycle to continue over and over. If another hurricane like Andrew blows through south Florida again, it will again wipe out bunches of homes, and once again there will be a hue and cry, and stricter codes will again be enacted, and after a few years, they will once again be relaxed, so it can start all over again. But don't get me started, I am trying to keep my blood pressure below 600...
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:24 PM   #28
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My politics begin & end with the environment. I also cannot stand arrogance or the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few while other people suffer & die. I despise the president & can't think of a single congressman or woman I respect.

Nevertheless, I don't expect our political leaders to be mind-readers. I can envision how people would have derided & blamed the president, FEMA, the Louisiana governor & the New Orleans mayor if they had force-evacuated every living being in the city & then nothing happened. My family is multiracial so I have seen in person what real racism is, and I'm convinced that Jesse Jackson & all those other people who, God bless them, make their living fighting the Man would have shown up & bitched about how, if the residents weren't black, nobody would have ordered them out of the city.

Sometimes, we are going to get smacked by something horrifying that we didn't foresee. It's nobody's fault. And, even after something horrific has happened, choosing the correct path to right the situation is not rocket science. But whatever path is chosen, someone is going to whine.

(I'm almost to the part that's on-topic) ... And lastly, the people in New Orleans didn't have to live there. Neither do the residents of my beloved Key West. And I didn't have to start a gardening business in the Midwest, which is historically dry & had a drought this summer that rivaled those of the Dust Bowl years. So there will always be personal decisions that affect a person's options when the chips are down. Sometimes, and only sometimes, people are poor & stuck in a hurricane's path because they haven't always done the smart thing. I've gotten myself into plenty of messes because I just made stupid decisions, and it wasn't Congress' fault & nobody should have been standing by under orders to save me from myself. Didn't government or insurers finally force some towns along the Mississippi to relocate to higher ground after enough floods that someone decided, "Hey, if you insist on living in such a dangerous spot, you're on your own"?

The government simply cannot solve every possible problem that could occur for every one of the hundreds of millions of people in this country. If they did, we'd be paying 80% of our incomes in taxes. We had a "disaster" in Chicago almost 20 years ago that was similar in, well, I guess the unforeseen quality of N.O., but it was just a snowstorm. But it shut the city down for DAYS. And the mayor got blamed for not having enough snowplows & other equipment standing by, and he actually lost the next election. So now, every time there's even ONE FLAKE in the forecast, all around Chicago you get snowplows idling by the expressways with the drivers no doubt on triple pay, and it just galls me to think what a waste & what a costly burden that is.

All right, with all that said, I've given some money & I've donated blood & that doesn't feel like enough yet. I'm not working & have a 4-bedroom house to myself so maybe could take in a family, plus I have time to drive a trailer down to N.O. & ask where I could be useful, but I'm worried about one thing, which goes back to the part about how you can't save people from themselves: One forum member said that people DID offer Airstreams as shelter during last year's Florida 'canes, and he says you've never seen trailers trashed so quickly by a bunch of ungrateful lowlifes.

So I'm torn. Once I was panhandled outside a bar in Chicago & brushed the woman off, but then thought better of the situation. So we chased her down & gave her 10 bucks, after which she whined & said she really needed 20. Well, guess what? Ten bucks was all I had at the time. But taking every penny I had at the time still wasn't gonna do the trick for this chick.

As far as New Orleans goes, in this situation I can afford the 10, but I don't want someone to expect the 20 ... and then in the end I find that their life is unchanged but mine has been made the poorer.
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