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Old 04-14-2017, 12:22 PM   #4075
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Maggie, I think you have it backwards. It is almost always necessary to change the way people think before they'll change the way they do stuff.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:36 PM   #4076
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Well, I have to respectfully disagree with that, Gerard, but then we come from different backgrounds and career paths so it is fairly predictable we would not agree.

The State necessarily requires do-and-not-do for certain parental behaviors for families we become involved with, while working for the change in thought-and-thinking-process which would hopefully reflect the internalized, long term change that allows problems to be determined "resolved".

For some people, only the threat of consequences keeps them this side of the line, and I suspect that may be the case with this young mother tolerating her 3 year old getting into the street...while expecting drivers on this street to be sure to avoid him under threat of "you die".

I mean, really.

I suspect it was a self serving rationalization, hopefully one she will now leave behind, keeping her child safe...the end goal.

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Old 04-14-2017, 12:57 PM   #4077
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Well said about do-and-not-do behaviors. Unfortunately in the younger generation of parents, the word "no" is often a foreign concept. Not sure if this line from The Fantastiks will make sense without further comment, but . . .

"Never tear down the wall . . . "

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Old 04-14-2017, 01:14 PM   #4078
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Hmm, I've never seen that musical, tho am very familiar with some of its tunes.

I googled the quote, but can't find much of an explanation.

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Old 04-14-2017, 01:30 PM   #4079
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A great show! Hard to explain . . . but here goes a short version . . . memory challenged here . . . probably going to lose something in the recounting . . .

Basic theme is a love story between the daughter of one older man, and the neighboring son of another older man. There is a fence between their properties which makes socializing difficult. After many melodramas and mis-hits, the younger couple falls in love, and one Dad suggests tearing down the wall, to help their relationship blossom and mature.

The other Dad says . . . [Edit -- "Always leave the wall" -- El Gayo at 1:40:07] -- because having to overcome the obstacle of the wall was part and parcel of why the couple coupled.

Memory shot! Summary above spotty and inconsistent. The Wall statement is at 1:40:07, right at the end.




PS not the best production or voices. FWIW. Saw the original off Broadway in the early 60's with Jerry Orbach as a young actor.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:57 PM   #4080
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That makes sense.

I notice those kids are playing in the back yard today.

Little house is cleaned, Lily and I made a trip to look at for-borders rock, I've rearranged/tidied my woodpile, hauled out the fire pit and Adirondack chair for the patio.

I'm feeling full of energy, and rather driven to get things done right now, so am capitalizing on that, as soon it will be warm and humid and I will feel much less energetic.

My dear niece has arranged for pickup in May of my grandparents antique dining room furniture...which I am giving to her, as my children don't want it and I need the space when the grands are here that this massive oak takes up.

Beautiful, two pieces made by my Dida, and it will be in good hands with her.

She who co-parents her nephews and niece her mother has guardianship of...four generations now living together in one home.

I love those people.

I will follow the truck up with the Interstate, spend the night and we will have a little celebration.

Going to replace the oak at some point with a small and inexpensive drop leaf, with some storage bench seating, and I won't then cringe every time one of the grands squeezes by that china cabinet...still with its original, 110 year old glass.

Life goes on...

Maggie
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:04 PM   #4081
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I added this book to my Nook some time ago...because, well, it's about the Hole in the Wall Gang...which Doug loved reading and learning about.

I have a picture of him next to a statue of Butch Cassidy, taken somewhere in Wyoming, I think.

Etta Place became the "wife" of Harry Longbaugh, aka the Sundance Kid.

It is very well written, and I am really enjoying it.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:06 PM   #4082
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:18 AM   #4083
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The statue is probably the one in Duois, WY where Butch Cassidy owned a ranch and often visited the town and in particular the general store, Welty's, I think, which is was still operating a couple of years ago when we went through there.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:32 AM   #4084
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Maggie. What I meant to convey was that imposed change, although it brings about compliance, often minimal, leads to resentment. It seldom brings about any change in thinking. A change in thinking on the other hand will bring about acceptance and even full endorsement of the change in action. I understand that the second process usually takes longer and the child's safety is at risk right now.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:01 AM   #4085
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I absolutely agree with you, Gerard.

When children are removed, or are at risk of removal from their parents, we immediately require things like no use of illegal substances, complying with random urine drops, providing adequate/age-appropriate supervision, establishing and maintaining separation from an abusive other, etc., while parent(s) are in treatment, therapy, parenting classes, etc.

That has to be done, and immediately, at the time of intervention, to protect the rights of e child to his parent and the parent to their child.

Sometimes parents over time change their thinking, understand, accept and internalize needed changes, and sometimes they don't...some never get past the resentment and anger at being told what to do by the State and the juvenile court system.

Yep...human behavior. It is what it is.

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Old 04-15-2017, 08:12 AM   #4086
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"Always leave the wall . . . "



Have a good weekend and a joyous Easter.

Peter

PS -- Getting to be Dutch Oven time pretty soon, Maggie, after our new tow vehicle comes in. Yes! Can't wait.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:19 AM   #4087
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Yes, I may get my DO going for the Moraine View gathering in June, going to depend on the weather...standing over that in heat and humidity does not excite me.

It is another beautiful and sunny day day here, going to be mid-70's.

Violets are everywhere this time of year, and I love them.
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:33 AM   #4088
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I like them also. Nature. Inspiring us everyday.
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