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Old 04-21-2016, 09:11 AM   #2255
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It is a really pretty bottle ....I thought about saving it, but I have too many bottles already, and if I'm going to be drinking wine out of bottles rather than small boxes, I must draw a line.

I found this idea online, that I really like for otherwise hideous downspouts.

I saw bags of large, smooth stones out at Home Depot the other day, and have an area I think I am going to do this in.

Pretty, hmmm? I like the natural look of the stone.


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Old 04-21-2016, 09:16 AM   #2256
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And, I already did this one this morning, tho it's not a very good picture with the sun on it......Edisto shells, of course, the last of those not suitable for candles nor for my paving stones.

Found this idea online, as well, and this is off my front porch, near the door.

I may have to glue some of the smaller ones down....we'll see.

Spring brings my nesting instinct out in full force.


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Old 04-21-2016, 12:55 PM   #2257
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I planned to attend my needlework group today, to find it is cancelled today as the Senior Program is moving to its own, brand new facility, the "Activity and Recreation Center", owned and operated by the Township.

I haven't been since the first week in January, so this all escaped me, tho I did know a new facility was in the works.

In order for any person to attend any group or activity at the new facility, you must be a Member, paying a $25 annual fee for a single person and providing the following information:

Name, address, home and cell telephone number, date of birth, email address, gender, marital status, ethnicity, mobility/health/allergy information, two emergency contacts and preferred hospital.

By signing that all of this information is correct, one also agrees and consents that this information may be used for statistical and in-house marketing purposes.

You then have a photo taken and are given an Identification number.

One must then provide a witnessed signature that you have received and read rules and regulations for Participants and agree to notify of any changes and additions to your Participant Registration Form.

Lastly, one must sign a witnessed, 3/4 page long Liability Release and Indemnity.

No more just dropping in when one is in town, signing the sheet as participant for that day, enjoying the casual company of other, like minded women also doing needlework of some sort.

I don't know that I want to do this.

It's one of those weeks....things are out of alignment in my universe, tilted in some manner.

I'll spare you the details.


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Old 04-21-2016, 02:40 PM   #2258
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Looks like the lawyers and insurance company have become involved in something that should be much simpler.

Personally, without the ability to opt-out of the marketing stuff, I would hesitate to sign it also. The fee is also causing heartburn😄

As a security guy, I have deeper issues with some of the data requested. Birthdate is one that is very concerning. That's why mine on a form like that is NOT my real birthdate, just saying...😄

And before someone else asks, "would I lie to protect my privacy?" The answer is "You betcha--in a heartbeat--all the time". I put it in the category of "They don't need to know"

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Old 04-21-2016, 02:48 PM   #2259
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Oh Maggie, hard decision or it would be for me.

I walked out of a Dr appt because they insisted on taking my picture on their laptop.

I know its the new direction of things but that doesn't make it right.

They will likely report some statistical information to some agencies or government bureaus about what the population is they are serving in order for some funding.

I would think as a township center that they should be safeguarding your information not be allowed to share it. Our city library will not even disclose personal information to family members due to privacy restrictions.

Every time (or most)I've had privacy or ID theft issue it's been organizations being hacked or breached not me being careless.

I'm done
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:49 PM   #2260
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The fee is pretty nominal, but this new facility is supported by our tax dollars, plus federal monies are also in place, I believe.

It's a Senior Center, meals are provided at low cost and are federally subsidized, but you sign up to participate in that, which I have not...there may be other federal monies in there, I don't know.

There are also fees for some classes, tho the needlework group is free....everyone brings their own materials, works on their own projects, etc.

They're requiring all identifying information but for SSN. They need all of this information....why?

Providing it all, consenting to its use, signing the release, etc., are now conditions of participation in anything at the new facility.

It's the sum total of it all, and I am not in the mood for it.


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Old 04-21-2016, 03:36 PM   #2261
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Maggie, I don't know that I would want to give out all that personal information, that could then be shared with who knows who! Seems like a lot of over kill for such a simple thing. It appears that the more government influence there is placed on simple pleasures....the more difficult things have become.. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:55 PM   #2262
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It seems unnecessary to me, as does "membership", and "identification cards", for a facility meant to help and support aging citizens.

The membership fee might also be a hardship for some with very limited incomes, preventing their participation.

The facility the program is in now is rented, the new one opening Monday is Township owned.

Their building, their rules, apparently.

It's not for me right now, nor a cause I intend to take up.


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Old 04-22-2016, 07:26 AM   #2263
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After sleeping on this , I'm not going to abandon this group I have enjoyed so much just because the Membership application is so off-putting.

I am going to opt out of portions of their form, pay my $25, sign their releases, and see how that goes over.

Can they require that one list medical issues as a condition of Membership, then affixing witnessed signature agreeing to update these issues as needed? What???

You are signing a highly detailed release of any liability of any kind for you or your heirs, so for what reason do they need this information? Surely that is an option, not a requirement.

These people are not caregivers, nor are they asked to be...this is a Senior Center, providing low key activities and optional meals. Its subsidies come from a number of public sources, including the federal government.

It is fricking annoying, and I'm not sure legal. Are they bound by HIPAA laws, who sees your medical information? Do they develop stats for who has diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimer's, ALS, Parkinson's, AIDS??? Do the Feds know they are gathering this information, and have regulations governing its storage and use?

Personal responsibility dictates that one insure medical first responders are quickly aware of ones critical issues, and that's where that responsibility should lie....or not, if a person chooses not to carry/wear that information.

My medical information is not all that special, but it feels intrusive to be required to provide it to attend a needlework group.

Doing a little online research, fees for Senior Centers are not unusual, nor are Membership Applications, but I didn't find any that looked like the one for Normal Township.


I'm on a bit of a rant, so I will add to that the "House Calls" program my SOI healthcare provider has....where they call your home and cell number incessantly, wanting to set up an appointment so that a "licensed professional" can come into your home, conduct a physical history and examination, observe your environment, etc., then doing a write up that you can share with your medical provider. What???

They can tell from your billings that you see your medical providers regularly, fill your prescriptions, etc.

For what reason would they then need to send yet another, outside person into your home to do a physical examination, etc.

I could see that this service could be helpful for someone who was medically frail, housebound, etc., but even then one would have local home health care providers, who coordinated directly with your medical providers....not someone outside your provider loop, employed by your insurance company.

I finally called the insurer and had them take my home and cell numbers out of their databases, as telling callers I was not interested had no deterrent effect, and this finally stopped the calls. Yikes.

It's been one of those weeks.


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Old 04-22-2016, 08:15 AM   #2264
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Looking at this issue online, a Township run Senior Center does not appear to be covered HIPAA privacy laws.

I have not found another Senior Center Membership application that asks for medical information, either.

It's the principle of the thing.

I'm just going to quietly decline to provide medical information. I'll let y'all know how this turns out.


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Old 04-22-2016, 10:01 AM   #2265
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I've been known to put "NYDB" in blanks on forms....you would be amazed how many people don't know what that means.

Let us know how this wirks out. If you get any guff, ask to see a copy of the regulations that allows them to ask this information. I suspect HIPAA might have an opinion on this.




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Old 04-22-2016, 10:24 AM   #2266
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I'm just going to cross thru the section asking for medical/mobility/allergies and write "decline to provide".

I'm taking responsibility for myself, they don't need this information...tho they may want it, for whatever reason. Everything in the 3 page document you have to fill out and sign seems geared toward avoiding liability, but still....unsecured medical information.

If they have medical information on Members, what are they going to do with it, other than perhaps tally medical condition totals?

Any staff can peruse forms of hundreds of Members, their neighbors, perhaps, to see whose got what?

Run to look at it if someone passes out, before calling 911 or providing basic first aid?

Any responsible adult with a chronic medical condition, requiring immediate attention in the event of an emergency, would wear and/or carry information stating just that.

I also have a real issue with membership fees being required with the new facility as these will exclude those at the lowest income levels who would otherwise attend but can't afford the fees. No where is there mention of a waiver of these for those who can't pay, tho there may be many would hesitate to ask.

Their website says the fees are not to make money but to encourage people to use the facility, because if they pay for it they will use it.

I know that some of the folks who come to the Senior Center are in public nursing homes, meaning very limited incomes.

Looking at this online, membership fees are common tho not universal. I doubt the one Doug's Mom went into for her noon meal Mon-Fri had a membership fee, as that would have pissed her off and she would have mentioned it.

Seems exclusionary, to me, perhaps wanting to keep out "the riff raff"...a phrase I heard someone recently use" ...tho lower income Seniors need services and activities, too.

It is a bit offensive, the whole package, but I'm going to be a big girl and swallow all but that one section.

If they refuse to allow my Membership without all of that, I will ask for rules, regs, etc.


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Old 04-22-2016, 10:32 AM   #2267
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Good for you Maggie!

It's all part of data mining, data sharing, data gathering, data selling and for what good. The various systems don't communicate with each other anyway.

If the end goal is that I can go into a emergency room in a hospital in Timbuktu and they can pull up all my medical information and properly treat me that's nice. I do not see that happening anytime soon/ever

At work the transportation survey became mandatory so we would all comply otherwise federal transportation funding would be withheld.

On my phone Google keeps asking if I know certain people, well quite looking at our contact lists Google its noneya!


At the car dealership the salespeople kept taking the phone numbers from the service writer and calling with solicitations. A direct letter to the dealership finally knocked that off.

I know in the scheme of things its small potatoes, very small, however it IS the principle and people should not be required to share all their details with strangers because a box needs to be filled in.


I have nothing to hide but would like to have some choice or option. And some wise butt telling me well you don't need to have a smart phone or your free to go elsewhere is not the choice I refer to.

Maggie good luck with your decision. The nominal fee I understand, a contact number for you and an emergency contact maybe. The rest sorry.

Freedom of information act, hippa, records retention and disposal requirements etc.
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:03 AM   #2268
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There must be an elected governing body that oversees the rules for that facility--Town Council, etc. If you have time and feel strongly about changing this, I'd suggest you place the matter on their agenda for the next meeting (this is required here in Texas, but may be different there) and go speak to them about it. Take as many of the seniors who use the facility as possible with you. Skip the appointed and merely employed folks and go to the ones who have to face the local voters every once in a while.

It's possible the council members are clueless about the issues you've raised. In any case, the squeaking wheel principle usually works.
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