$4 per gallon gasoline

[Silvertwinkie]

You'd think the gov would do something if they all saw the post before this one by Pieman. What's the worse of 2 evils....less gas tax revenue or less sales taxes, from lost sales=jobs?

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

You'd think the gov would do something if they all saw the post before this one by Pieman. What's the worse of 2 evils....less gas tax revenue or less sales taxes, from lost sales=jobs?

Just as in cigarette sales, the govt will continue to raise taxes to make up the difference in tax revenues as more consumers quit smoking and we use less fuel by buying more efficient vehicles.

Its an oxymoron. They've raised taxes to change our use habits but then they don't like the results of less tax revenue. DUH?

As in anything there are trade offs.

I enjoyed these articles about how the Prius:

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

<http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188>

Prius can't pass Georgia emissions test

<http://economy.autoblog.com/2007/04/16/prius-cant-pass-georgia-emissions-test/>

Some more fun fuel related tidbits:

Study Says Ethanol Pollution Could Rival Gas

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9647424>

"A new study warns of the health risks from ethanol that could end up creating a worse health hazard than gasoline. LA would be hardest hit because ethanol creates more ozone than gasoline does," i.e., ethanol could end up polluting more than gasoline does.

[jimmini]

what will Hydrogen used in cars do to the humidity levels in places like Phoenix AZ with all that water comming out of the tail pipes?
Make it into Miami FL?

No one has given me a good answer in the past so will try here

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by jimmini

what will Hydrogen used in cars do to the humidity levels in places like Phoenix AZ with all that water comming out of the tail pipes?
Make it into Miami FL?

No one has given me a good answer in the past so will try here

I have posed that question many times, here and elsewhere. What will the impact on the micro-climate of cities be, cities like Atlanta where the humidity level is already high and there are no sea breezes to carry the extra humidity away like Miami has.

[Wabbiteer]

It's been discovered atmospheric particle shading (soot, etc.) is reducing evaporation globally - it is the photons striking surface waters' molecules that play a key role for moisture cycles counted on for generations.

With reduced sunshine the reduced evaporation can/is/will wreak havoc downwind. So perhaps the H2 economy will help; already they have empiric proof the efforts of US air pollution abatement means downwind of North America has the most normal evaporative cycles of any continent!!

[GlenCoombe]

Gas has been in the $4 range for about six months for those who fly. What's next?

[lewster]

Hey Jim,

I'm with ya! Look at my Sprinter. 154HP 5 cylinder diesel that gets 20-22mpg with the van weighing about 8000lb in work trim. Pulling my 19' CCD, I get 14-17MPG at highway speeds. That translates to moving about 12,000 lb total. So it slows a bit going up long grades..... SO WHAT?

The Euros have small efficient diesels that are getting 50-60 mpg that aren't sold here. The promise of better diesel technology and the use of biodiesel are tremendous, but as usual, the 'Big Three' in Detroit just aren't getting this message, even though they sell way more diesels ion Eorupe and can see what they do in that market to their bottom line.

A big conglomerate like Archer Daniels Midland, based in the agriculture industry and a huge food processor, has the capability to make huge amounts of bio-diesel. Small design mods to existing diesel engine technology like using Viton seals would allow anyone to use bio in a diesel engine.

The un-holy alliance between the oil industry, government and the technocrats is keeping this technology from being developed, and NOTHING will happen to this end until we run out of oil. With the potential for alternative fuels out there like bio-diesel and LP powered engines, oil should be used as a raw material for manufacturing and not for a motor fuel.

IMHO, hydrogen is just a pipe dream, considering the HUGE amount of dollars that would need to be expended in infrastructure, supply and SAFETY concerns. The technology for viable alternatives is here NOW, you just have to do it your self for the forseeable future!

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by lewster

IMHO, hydrogen is just a pipe dream, considering the HUGE amount of dollars that would need to be expended in infrastructure, supply and SAFETY concerns. The technology for viable alternatives is here NOW, you just have to do it your self for the forseeable future!

the tech for Hydrogen is mostly here already, too. Its just a matter of implementation. at one time, (not really all that long ago), there wasn't a gas station on every corner, either. that'll change. It could change in a hurry, with proper motivation. (government incentives, etc).
the safety issue is simply one of PR and education. Hydrogen is safer to handle than gasoline. But right now, when you say "hydrogen", people envision "Hindenburg". We're comfortable w/ gas because we're so familiar with it. same for electricity and propane...heck, driving in general is the most dangerous thing we do...kills tens of thousands of people per year, and we do it without batting an eyelash.

In the mean time, though, yeah; diesel would be great, if you didn't have to buy a Peterbuilt to get it. When I bought my 1/2-ton truck, in order to get something with the same options, AND a diesel engine would have cost nearly 50% more...because the engine available was huge...and 3/4 ton was required. those 2 options =$10,000, at the time. Nuts!!

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by Chuck

.....
In the mean time, though, yeah; diesel would be great, if you didn't have to buy a Peterbuilt to get it. When I bought my 1/2-ton truck, in order to get something with the same options, AND a diesel engine would have cost nearly 50% more...because the engine available was huge...and 3/4 ton was required. those 2 options =$10,000, at the time. Nuts!!

Well I guess I'm one of those suckers who ponied up for the big diesel motor to pull the 34 footer we just bought. Wanted the capability to be able load the truck with our kayaks and other stuff along with towing the trailer and didn't see any other options.

Couldn't wait to see when Mercedes was going to release their blue tech (sp) diesel for their larger SUVs as the wife found the trailer she wanted.

I lived and worked in Europe for a couple years recently and had a 1.9L turbo diesel Passatt that just plain kicked butt. Of course they would have been practically no where to take a 34' Airstream though.

I see the new E320 diesel gets close to 40mpg.

The other thing I don't know about hydrogen is what does it really cost in energy to make the stuff so we can use it?

[hollandranch]

When we moved from Holland 5 months ago we thought the American system was better than the Dutch. In Holland the prices only went up and never down, but seems to be the same way here now. A lot of small companies will be in trouble, only because the big companies are getting richer and richer.

[Minnie's Mate]

I recently read that Range Rover has developed a small diesel engine that Ford plans to offer in the F-150 (Ford owns Range Rover) in 2008 or 2009 model year. That will help, maybe, depending on the torque and horsepower, and of course the transmission it's linked to. It may end up just being an expensive fuel saver option and not add to the towing capacity, though. Won't know 'till the stats make it to the streets. But this might make the decision for diesel vs. 3/4 ton argument a non-issue for those who are on the edge when it comes to trailer size and towing limits. It might also mean a diesel that has a comfortable ride, too.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by klattu

Brazil sold many Ethanol-only cars back in the 80's.
Don't think it worked as well as hoped, but is something.

Brazilians weren't that happy then (after petrol prices plummeted) but are very happy now. Most cars in Brazil can run on petrol, bio-fuel, or any mixture thereof. So there is active, day by day, competition between 'gas' stations that pump fuel for cars. Not surprisingly, fuel from both sources is relatively cheap.

That said, Brazil does have an enormous advantage over the US. It takes 1 gallon of gas to create 8 gals of fuel from sugarcane grown in Brazil - the same gallon of gas creates only 1.3 gals of fuel from corn grown in the US. Part of the advantage is that Brazil receives more sunlight, but most of the advantage comes from politics. Corn is a poor source of biofuel, but it has strong corporate sponsorship (aka ADM) and a federal price support structure that strongly rewards overproduction. US Sugar production (a crop much more useful for fuel conversion) is controlled by different rules.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by dpandorf

I enjoyed these articles about how the Prius:

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

The Recorder

The CNW Marketing report once again rises from the grave...

The Recorder article was a student's rehash of the report that CNW Marketing Research Inc put out in 2006 and spread like wildfire on the internet as 'Prius vs Hummer'. Unfortunately for Mr. Demorro, the CNW Marketing report was debunked when it was found to contradict the results of automobile lifecycle environmental assessments of Carnegie Mellon University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and the Argonne National Laboratory (U of Chicago's DOE lab).

Actually, so everyone compares apples to apples (except of course the folk at CNW research) the calculation of the envionmental impact over a car's lifetime from manufacture through use and disposal is standardized in ISO 14040. It is a bit full of 'happy talk', but if you like you can read a summary of Toyota's ISO 14040 report on the Prius.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf

More info can also be found starting at post #41 in

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...d-28016-3.html

All this is not to say that I believe hybrids are the solution to every problem. As I've noted in other posts, if you live in the American Southwest (eg high speed, low traffic, high temps) a TDI is a much better choice.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Do you think Airstream buyers today would settle for an Airstream that doesn't have a gray water tank?

I don't have a grey water tank - but I sure wish the shower just dumped on the ground. It is absurd that it is OK for me to drain to the ground if I use my Airstream's showerhead outside but not inside.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

What about a 10 gallon fresh water tank?

I don't use my freshwater tank at all - the one time we've camped at a site with no water we brought our own in jugs.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Do you think they could get by with a goffer hole in a camp ground?

Nope...I like having a black tank.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would they settle for a gaucho instead of a queen island bed?

We have a 3/4 bed(more than a single, less than a double)

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would a pipe frame pass safety inspection today?

Nope.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would a buyer today buy an Airstream without A/C?

I'd have loved to buy my Airstream without A/C - but good luck finding one.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

What about a converter or batteries?

Truth be told, I've never seen a campsite without 20Amps of 110V. So maybe if the price was right.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

What about a two burner stove instead of a three?

Yup, got two burners.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would you buy a new Airstream without a microwave oven?

Yup, no microwave.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

What about only two overhead storage bins?

We've got 2 1/2 counting the 1/2 of one over the sink.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would you want a smaller 'fridge?

Yup, got a small fridge.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would you give up carpet for vinyl tile floors?

Got vinyl...though not tile.

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Would a single gas cylinder be enough for your camping needs?

Yup...if I could get a gauge that worked.

I wanted a good trailer that slept two adults and two kids as comfortably as possible in a wide variety of state parks and commercial campgrounds (ie 100% power, 90% water, 50% dump). And the 16'er had a better bed for us than the 19' or 23' [the new 20' Safari didn't exist].

All of which is now officially WAY off topic for a $4 fuel thread. Except to say that if Airstream made a lighter trailer I would happily have bought.

[zamboni]

I guess I'll go fill up my 80 gal tank ($250+) before Wednesday and we go to Hannibal, Mo this weekend...that's 8 mpg towing or not! Although, we can travel alittle over 600 miles on a fill-up, I never want to find out exactly how far below 1/4 tank empty really is, so I fill up when it is slightly above 1/4 on the guage (I can't drive for that long either without needing to "drain" the tank)

[Minnie's Mate]

There is a Race-Trac station at the exit/on ramp where I get on/off the interstate and it does a very brisk business so I kind of use it as my bell weather of what's going on with fuel prices since it responds so quickly due to its volume. Last week I saw a drop of $.12 between Monday and Thursday and an $.11 jump between Thursday morning rush hour and Thursday afternoon rush hour...what's going on with that. Yesterday morning (Monday) their price had dropped$.01/gallon. Yesterday afternoon, their price had jumped $.08/gallon. Talk about yo-yo prices. What gives?

This morning the radio news said that the petroleum industry reports that there are 11 states where the price of gas is over $3/gallon already and we haven't even reached the summer peak. That same report also said that we would more than likely eclipse the post Katrina peak prices. It went on to say that a refinery was down for servicing and it was putting a squeeze on the gasoline supply.

Now earlier this year the market watchers were saying that gas prices would go down steadily over the year and would reach a low by the end of the year and would then start to climb back up in early '08. Also, it seems that there has been an oil refinery off-line ever since Katrina. What gives, do they all need that much service since Katrina drove up prices? It didn't cause a supply problem before Katrina for refineries to be serviced? Does it take a year and a half to service a refinery? Those poor people that work at that refinery must have been without a job all of this time.

[Airhog1]

Just hit $3.07 for premium here...$2.83 for 87 Octane

[safari57]

Gas is about to hit $1.25 Canadian per liter or $4.73 Canadian per US gal. The US dollar being worth more than the Canadian dollar will bring US visitors to Canada's cost down , but it will still be in the $4 range. Ouch!!!!

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Now earlier this year the market watchers were saying that gas prices would go down steadily over the year and would reach a low by the end of the year and would then start to climb back up in early '08. Also, it seems that there has been an oil refinery off-line ever since Katrina. What gives, do they all need that much service since Katrina drove up prices? It didn't cause a supply problem before Katrina for refineries to be serviced? Does it take a year and a half to service a refinery? Those poor people that work at that refinery must have been without a job all of this time.

Part of the problem is you've got Mr. Chavez in Venezuela is commandeering US oil companies that are operating down there. That only makes the futures traders more reason to keep the price up.

[silverback]

Diesel is down here in PHX ($2.759) but gas is up. So I don't think we can blame it on Fidel's buddy Hugo (this time). It probably is a refinery, summer reformulation thing but I still smell a conspiracy.
-KL