$4 per gallon gasoline

[Wabbiteer]

People really do pay the same for petroleum in all free-market nations since we all buy from the same sources (with some differing delivery charges) but mention high COST to end-user in Europe all one is doing is comparing rates of taxation.

[JimGolden]

I feel for you Silverconnie. We threw King George out 200 years ago, because "there was no difference in him stealing from me through excessive taxation than if he'd just plucked the coins from my very pocket." - Colonel George Washington said that.

You guys get hosed by excessive taxation. Actually we are too, but not as badly as you. We're both getting hosed by greed.

[Minnie's Mate]

In the U.S. the "free market" allows the oil companies to set the price at what the market will bear. More like what it can stand before there is a backlash. But the government gets a percentage as taxes so there is no incentive for the government to regulate the prices. Funny, we have public service commissions to make sure the utility companies don't over charge in their monopolies but they don't have authority over the oil monopolies (don't think because there are multiple oil companies there isn't a monopoly). In Europe and the U.K., their governments get so much more in taxes on fuel that they aren't about to lower the price of fuel because it would mean such a loss of revenues for them.

[Auretrvr]

Garfield on oil. - Cartoons & Comics Jokes - Funny Videos, Pictures & Jokes at JibJab

[Airhog1]

$2.99 for premium here!

G

[klattu]

A few weeks ago, We were watching the futures on gas for May...it should be going down.
I want to see if that holds true.

[pmclemore]

Gas is still cheap. enjoy it while you can. there will be no alternative fuels until the cost of gas gets prohibitive, whether from substantially increased taxes or steep drop in supply.

There is no need for a conspiracy to explain why fuels are rising in price.

[DFord79]

Everyone talks about alternative fuels. Some are eeeking into our system. Boidiesel for instance. But I strongly feel that until we are really out of fossel fuel and our OIL companys start in the alternative fuel business we are fooling ourselves. When Exxon/mobil and Chevron/texaco get in the corn/ alternative or what ever the next big thing in fuel is there will be plenta to go around at a price of course.

Fuel has gone from 2.39 to 3.14 here in less than two months. Diesel is cheaper by a few pennys than gas. Thats not happened in decades. There is 8 cents more tax on diesel too. WHATS GOING ON...them boys on wallstreet.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by gmorris

$2.99 for premium here!

G

Nice....too bad it would take me several tanks to get down there to get it....it's well over $3.29 here now...and that's here in the "burbs".

Downtown or around the city itself, it's pushing $3.70!

[Pitt2500]

I'm new to the community so forgive me if this has been asked.
I tow w/a pickup w/a full length topper over the bed & pull a 31' Excella.
W/diesel @ $3/gallon will one of the "wind deflectors" on top of my topper help my mileage or are the airstreams "slick" enough that it woudn't help?
Thanks

[Silvertwinkie]

IMHO, you may find only slight increases. For the $$ they cost, you may see a cost recovery in terms of fuel savings in the pennies per trip, given the shape of the Airstream in general. Could be several years if you don't travel all that much to realize any payback. Of course, I'm no engineer, these are just my thoughts on it having looked into it a bit a while back.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by DFord79

...Diesel is cheaper by a few pennys than gas. Thats not happened in decades. There is 8 cents more tax on diesel too. WHATS GOING ON...them boys on wallstreet.

I can't speak for your area of the country, and with an extra $.08/gal. in taxes on diesel, you may be correct for your state, but diesel has always been cheaper in Georgia than gasoline until a couple of years ago...about the time I bought my diesel truck.

[safari57]

Originally Posted by Pitt2500

I'm new to the community so forgive me if this has been asked.
I tow w/a pickup w/a full length topper over the bed & pull a 31' Excella.
W/diesel @ $3/gallon will one of the "wind deflectors" on top of my topper help my mileage or are the airstreams "slick" enough that it woudn't help?
Thanks

I understand the most significant means of improving mileage is to reduce the speed. I know with my truck and cars, driving under 60 versus the usual 70 makes a significant difference, as much as 20%, in my overall fuel mileage. I keep forgetting on the cars without cruise, though, and catch myself right back up there with the big boys at close to 70. I had a wind deflector on the top of one of my former trucks when pulling a regular trailer and it made no difference. With a fifth wheel it was effective, but not the regular trailer.

I see oil continues to run over $65 barrel (in Canada at least). I also see that a very large alternative fuel plant is being built in Alberta, about an hour north of Calgary.

Barry

[Radman]

Here in Northern Calif. I just filled up the truck and paid $3.39 per gallon for reg. Got rid of the diesel f-250 a year ago because it got out of control. Why charge more for diesel? I don't think it is refined like real gasoline. Oh, I get it. The majority of our country evolves around the trucking industry for transport of our goods. So why not gouge the heck out of the truckers? It is always about the money. Sad but true. O.K. off the soapbox now.
I'm out.....

[dpandorf]

I found this article interesting:

<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/25/BUGF3PEIUQ1.DTL>

"California drivers are saddled with average gas taxes of 58.6 cents per gallon, according to the institute. That's the third-highest total in the nation, after New York (60.8 cents) and Hawaii (60.4 cents).

The lowest gas-tax burdens can be found in Alaska (26.4 cents per gallon), Wyoming (32.4 cents) and New Jersey (32.9 cents).

By contrast, taxes add about $4 to the price of a gallon of gas in Europe and more than $3 in Japan."

What's amazing is a professor says "We'll need European-level gas prices before the U.S. engine of innovation gets really serious."

If that were the case why haven't the Europeans led on this innovation? If they haven't why would we?

And then back to bashing the oil companies. Here's an interesting link to who is really raking in the doe on oil:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...show/1139.html

Year Oil Profits Federal Taxes State Taxes Total Taxes
2004 $42.6 $24.2 $34.2 $58.4

Please tell me what risk the government has made to find, drill, produce, transport, refine and meet all the other govt regulations to get us $3.00/gallon gasoline?

Sorry, I'm sitting in a hotel while working.

[JimGolden]

Well I used to build jets for a living and I'm a devout motorhead from way back, so let me take a crack here.

I here some of the less technical guys where I work say "...the internal combustion engine is the bane of society and needs to be replaced with something better. They will come up with it with enough prodding."

OK, I consider myself part of "they". There is no easy solution. Any piston engine out there can be made to run on hydrogen. When you burn hydrogen, all you get is water. Well and good. But if the engine isn't rust proof, it will rust up. Secondly, hydrogen has nowhere near the btu/lb that gasoline does. China has some city buses over there that run on hyrdogen. On top of the bus is what looks like a replica of the Goodyear blimp that's about 40 feet long and 8 feet in diameter. That's the fuel tank. It's probably equivalent to 30 gallons of gas. I don't have the btu conversion spec at hand, but gasoline has way more power per unit than hydrogen.

Batteries just aren't there. As well, you have to look at the total pollution. A coal powered electric station burns 300,000 btu's worth of black rocks to generate 100,000 btu's of electric power, sends it out over the wires, 70,000 actually reaches your house, you then run it through the transformer and 50,000 gets into your batteries, and when you drive your electric car, about 10,000 of it actually gets used for motive force. If it'd just had a 30hp gas engine, the real total pollution would have been a lot less. UNLESS, we use some other means to generate the electricity. Well there aren't enough dams, windmills, etc. to do it for everybody. The only answer that makes sense is nuclear power. Use hydrogen rockets to launch the waste material (there isn't that much really) into the sun or something. But nuclear is a verboten word. Batteries need to improve, but they're just not there now.

I think steam engines are cool, and there were steam powered cars way back. Steam engines are EXternal combustion engines. The boiler is where the power is made. They work, but are big, bulky, heavy, and take a long time to start up. OK for ships and even trains, but not the most practical for cars. At least for anything much smaller than a schoolbus that you want to start and stop a lot.

OK, on aerodynamics. If you double the speed, you quadruple the aerodynamic drag and increase the horsepower required by a factor of 8. So looing at 60mph vs. 70mph, we've increased the speed by 1/6, or 1.17. Do the math and the drag is now 1.17*1.17=1.4 so there is 40% more aerodynamic drag at 70mph than at 60mph, and the horse power required is now 1.17*1.17*1.17 = 1.58. So to go from 60mph to 70mph, you need 58% more power. So if your rig could maintain 60mph on level ground on 125 horsepower (probably not too far off), then it will need just about 200hp to go 70mph. Fuel burn is directly related to horsepower, so you're going to burn 58% more gas to go 70 than 60.

Now that I've totally bored everyone with too much math, I'll sign off

[Chuck]

Jim, I think your first 2 points explain why they're not going to make hydrogen powered internal combustion engines; the idea is to use hydrogen fuel cells to generate electricity to drive an electric motor.

And the Europeans ARE doing something about it. I saw on one of those science shows (Nova, perhaps?) about how far the Norwegians have gone with this...one of their main x-country highways is soon going to be traversable on Hydrogen. (they're making sure that there are sufficient fueling stations to go from one end of the country to the other.). Icenland has also done alot w/ fuel cell technology, sitting on all that geo-thermal energy (i.e. "free" electricity...at least, fossil-fuel free).

[klattu]

What's amazing is a professor says "We'll need European-level gas prices before the U.S. engine of innovation gets really serious."

If that were the case why haven't the Europeans led on this innovation? If they haven't why would we?

That is a very good point.

Brazil sold many Ethanol-only cars back in the 80's.
Don't think it worked as well as hoped, but is something.

[safari57]

The States of CA, OR, WA and the Province of BC have agreed in principle to create a "hydrogen highway" from LA to Whistler. I am unsure of timing but I believe they are hoping to do something prior to the 2010 Olympics at Whistler - but that may be wrong timing understanding on my part.

I have a friend who designs injection systems to inject natural gas at high pressure into diesel engines which cuts operating costs by quite a bit. Cummins has invested heavily in their company and these units are being sold globally to the commercial sector. They run significantly cleaner, more power, fewer contaminants in the oil, and I'm not sure of other benefits they mention. There's still a lot of creativity going on out in the real world. The move to fuels generated by such things as waste from beer (Coors is already selling their former waste materials for fuel) to what is grown in the fields (I understand virtually any product, not just corn, can be used) will be on us sooner than many of us expect.

I am just grateful I was born when I was and thus able to enjoy my automotive hobbies in a big way at affordable prices, have seen incredible things happen like the man on the moon, the computer invented, cell phones, and all the technology stuff, and now we get to see another evolution/revolution. These are exciting, albeit expensive, times. Heading into the hills for those camp-outs is going to be that much more relaxing getting away from all the stuff that's coming at us.

Barry

[Mike Lewis]

Here's my view on fuel prices--obviously the gov is doing nothing to protect the consumer with this issue. That said we are conservative with fuel usagebut continue to travel and drive as needed and have not changed plans due to $$$cost. We simply do like most busness's do{we're not a business} that being we pass the cost on to others. We do that by spending less on non esentials. We eat out less, buy fewer packaged foods, trade vehicles less often, shop for items we need not items we want because styles change, drop subscription to mags. and publications, shop for sale items as much as possible, eliminate entertainment like movies etc, purchase more on line,etc. If you do that you don't pay the additional fuel prices but pass them on to other business's. Sooner or later the econony will realize the burden thats placed on it by the petrol. industry.---pieman