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Old 07-13-2002, 07:45 PM   #1
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Angry Yet Another Surprise

Today (Saturday) after finishing placement of new carpet, Pergo
Flooring, New China Toilet, we thought we would be ready to take our "Maiden Voyage" in Belle. We had previously installed a new water filter in anticipation of using the plumbing for the first time since purchasing the coach. While sitting in the storage yard after filling the water tank, we wanted to test the new toilet and water filter. The toilet worked fine - no leaks and flush went directly to black water tank - no apparent leaks or problems. We then turned on the hot water heater - lots of hot water and both hot and cold water fine - no leaks. However, when we ran water into the sink(s) we noted a rather heavy flowingt of water at the rear of the coach between the roadside rear wheels. We began trying to figure this one out - so we then ran water into the toilet area wash basin - same effect as using the galley sinks. Removing the exhaust vents for the rear furnace from outstide the coach - THERE was the problem. The Main Grey Water drain pipe was fractured right where the pipe coming from the galley ( which carries water from the sinks and the toilet area wash basins ) enters an elbow fittings leading into the grey water tank. Obvious freeze damage!!!! At the same tiime, we found the that primary exhause hose from the rear furnace in the bedroom was deteriorated and broken open where it entered the external exhause port. Thank God, we had the water leak because if we had not had the water leak,. we would not have looked under the furnisce exhaust to find that leak and would not have found the furnace exhaust problem and could have been asphyxiated and never known just why???? Sombody upstairs is looking after us. We are now checking ALL pipes and exhaust hoses, etc BEFGRE we make our first trip. I think it was Fred who said in one of his posts - Regardless of what the PO has told you - check everything - you will find probably find problems - Veryt wise counsel Fred !!!!!
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Old 07-13-2002, 10:04 PM   #2
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Since my site gets lots of activity, I get lots of questions. I tell them all that these units are getting old and things break. Check them out from bumper to bumper. I need to get my heaters re-furbished before winter sets in! I'm lucky that I didn't break a pipe last year. We plan on using it year-round. I am going to replace the thermostats with digital ones after the heaters are serviced. They are $20 at Lowe's and it's a repair even I can make!

Doc, While you're getting that pipe replaced, I'd get it wrapped with some insulation to prevent it from freezing again. I wonder if the two are related. A properly functioning heater should help prevent that since the rear heat is located right by the three tanks and several water lines. Remember to blow out the lines on cold nights with your air hose.

Are you sure the bath sink goes to the grey tank? I thought it went to the black tank.
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Old 07-13-2002, 11:23 PM   #3
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Fred. I have checked the plumbing diagran and it shows that all the sinks go into the grey water tank. I am thinking that the back furnace on this unit was not recently used (it was for sale in a dealer lot well into freezing weather in ST Louis last winter, so the benefits from its heat weren't there I don't think. Oddly, this unit is fitted with a winterizing system - however, I don;t think it was used either. Yes, I always blow out my water lines and by-pass the HW heater, it if better to be safe than sorry. This circumstance has alerted me to checking all the piping and heater fixtures fully. Also, I have learned that the Alarm mounted in the Galley ONLY detects Propane - Not Monoxide from the furnaces or engine, SO I am going to install monoxide alarms in the bedroom and galley area after I repair the furnace exhaust ducting. Appreciate your comments on thermostats - have already serviced mine. You are again so right when you allude to these vehicles getting old and developing problems - you just can't take anything for granted with these beautiful classic giants.
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Old 07-14-2002, 10:42 AM   #4
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Stand Corrected on Plumbing Diagrom

Fred - I re-visited the Correct diagroms. You are right - It appears that the galley sink does go to the auxiliary tank, and that the lavatory sink through a Y joins with shower and these two streams go into the black water tank. The break in the pipe is at an elbow on the floor and then the pipe appears to go through the floor into the black water tank. The other flexible pipe from the furnish is the combustion air intake - not the exhaust so that danger is not as great but still it needs repair.
I don't see any way to get this drain pipe fixed witjout dropping the black water tank and all that entails Problem is finding a facility that can handle that - guess we won't be making our maiden voyage yet for awhile.
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:43 PM   #5
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My galley sink and shower drain into the gray water tank. I know that from field testing!

I'll have to re-check the lav sink. I thought it drained into the black water tank. Now I'm confused.
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Old 07-14-2002, 06:53 PM   #6
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Fred - The diagrom is a bit confusing - My diagram shows the trap for the lavatory sink leading to a Y where it appears the shower drain joins and goes into black water tank. Oddly it shows the trap from the galley leading into the grey water tank, and a supplemental line that I can;t see. I have been able to open up the bottom of the wardrobe closet over the furnace and I now see the broken pipe however there is another 2" pipe running above the broken pipe over to the rear of the furnace and down through the floor. I simply cannot figure that one out - unless it is part of the roof drain system. I observed the location of the pipes by removing the furnace exhaust and air intake cover before I cut into the floor of the closet. Since it appears that a 2" plastic line is broken right at the point of juncture with the elbow, I am thjinking I can clean cut it and insert a bit smaller stub into the lesser diameter (perhaps a 1 and1/4 " ) and do the same thing on the other end of the pipe and join them together with a piece of radiator hose. Hopefully, that would obviate removing the black water tank to accomplish the repair. Yet, I may have it all wrong - the broken pipe may be the one from the shower and the lavatory sink is the one that runs into the floor to the rear of the furnace - be interesting to see how it turns out.
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Old 07-21-2002, 03:59 PM   #7
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Update=Plumbing and Furnace Combustion Air Hose Problem

Well, it took a week to do - very difficult drain pipe and toilet water line repair - reaching under and through opening in wardrobe floor. Combustion Air Hose for rear furnace received from PPL Houston (was very hard to find) and installed. We are now able to install Sealand toilet and replace floor in the bottom of the wardrobe with cedar panel. We replaced the elevated toilet box carpeting with vinyl tile squares - up 12 inches on wall around toilet area = put Pergo on floor in lavatory area. Re-lining of cleaned drapes completed following installation of all blinds throughout the coach. Drapes in Bedroom cleaned and re-installed over new blinds.
With the repair of the Hot Water Dispenser (other thread)
We hope this completes the total repairs and updates to the interior of the coach. Another interior decor item. The upper center cabinet on the curb side which had housed a VCR which had been removed by others, leaving a gaping hole was closed with a door (matching oak made by the writer) on which one of Winn's Raku Trout has been mounted. Very attractive complement to the newly installed carpeting. in the lounge area.
It now appears that we may be able to take a maiden voyage before the first of August 2002.
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Old 07-21-2002, 04:17 PM   #8
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Take your trip quick! Too much time will result in you finding other things to fix! It sounds like you are as operational as you may ever be. If I remember correctly, you even have the doorbell (not exactly mission critical) working.

Have a great trip and let us know how Silver Belle does. I'm sure it will meet your expectations!

I hope to get new latches on Monday for my wardrobe doors that keep opening in transit. Those brown plastic jobs weren't meant for the long haul! My 345 will probably look the same at the next rally but what can't be seen (except by Peter and Brett crawling around and taking things apart) will be in much better shape. Mystic Springs was only our third time out and we were still VERY new to everything.
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Old 07-21-2002, 10:07 PM   #9
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Appreciate your comments Fred. No - it has been our objective from the start to put the vehicle into top operational condition, with all systems in good order and operating efficiently and safely.
We bought it with the idea of permanent ownership - possibly full time usage, and wanted it to be as attractive and comfortable as possible. We hoped to bring it to the same standard as Charlie's (If you recall his was really a honey). The new interior is very attractive. Now that the hot water dispenser and the Nutone are working, they are "extraa". As you say, there is not much else that could be repaired or upgraded. Getting that loose sterring rectified was a safety MUST - also the Spotlight is also a safety feature. We are anticipating probably visiting "Palmetto Cove - our WBCCI Campground at the foot of Ceasar"s Head in the Smokes as our first "Outing" Only about 70 miles from Anderson.
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Old 07-22-2002, 07:00 AM   #10
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Unhappy Hold On! There is More

Alas - Following the above Post, we decided we could celebrate the correction of all the purchase discrepancies - Erroneously there is yet another final frustration. For the first time we turned on the Radio to celebrate completion of all we have done AND we discovered another undisclosed purchase discreepancy. While the radio played beautifully, as did the televisioon antenna, CB antenna, the entire speaker system in the coach is inoperative. What is so bad about this problem is that we know absolutely nothing about Car Radio/Stereo Systems and don't know where to turn for help with this one. Anybody out there know anthing about how to approach this one
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Old 07-22-2002, 08:57 AM   #11
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Winner,


I can only offer one suggestion, as your coach is much newer than mine. Have you looked under the dash where the psekers would connect to the stero? Airstream usally uses 2 wire quick disconeects to wire their radios in. Possibly these have become disconnected?

Hope this helps, and I am sure you will be offered other things to check.
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Old 07-23-2002, 07:37 AM   #12
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Thanks for your comment I will check that out- I think these things are hooked up in series, a line break would open the circuit and they wouldn't work - this problem could have occured at any time in the past so it will be difficult to diagnose its nature - If I can't figure it out, I will take it to a car stereo audio place .
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Old 07-24-2002, 05:48 PM   #13
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Happy (?) Resolution of Radio Speaker System Problem

Took Silver Belle to Auto Radio-Stereo Specialist who did not take long in diagnosing and fixing problem. It seems that combination TV-VCR system had been installed in the vehicle. The TV portion, which has VCR input plugs on the front panel is still with the Coach, but someone (?) had removed the VCR portion of the system which had been mounted in the center cabinet of the overhead trio of cabinets on the curb side, leaving behind the VCR mounting tracks, disrupted wiring, and a gaping hole in the front of the cabinet. The technician found that for whatever reason, when the VCR was removed, most of the residual wiring was disrupted.. A replacement VCR is not available, so the existing TV with unsightly input plugs on the front will have to be replaced - he was able to repair the disrupted entertainment center wiring problems, which included the wiring for speaker system, and all is now working well. We have filled the gaping hole on the front of the cabinet with a partial door upon which a piece of Winn's Art Work has been mount ( A ceramic Raku Trout).
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