Wheels-up or two wheels down dolly towing?

[chriscraw]

I propose that the lower dolly weight and the the fact that half the VW Rabbit/Golf weight is still not being carried by the Airstream 350LE might reduce the hp needed to tow all wheels-up on a trailer on a trailer. For example, a typical car trailer weighs 3500 lbs versus 500 lbs for a dolly. The Rabbit weighs around 3000 lbs so half would be 1500 lbs. So the Airstream already under-powered 454 hauling the dolly/car combo would be pulling 2000 lbs versus 6500 lbs. Yes, there are issues to dolly towing including reversing and maneuverability but!!!
What am I missing?

[HowieE]

Horse power is work per unit time. It does not matter how you are towing the car the work required to move it over a give distance is the same and thus the amount of HP used is the same.

[chriscraw]

Originally Posted by HowieE

Horse power is work per unit time. It does not matter how you are towing the car the work required to move it over a give distance is the same and thus the amount of HP used is the same.

mmmm so the fact that (in theory at least) the fact that I would be hauling fewer pounds will still require the same energy or work per unit of time?

[Isuzusweet]

IMHO

Buy yourself a very cheap slightly used series 2 Saturn SL2 or SW2 with the 1.9 twin cam motor and tow 4 down. The cars are cheap, low miles, cheap to maintain and pretty bulletproof for a GM vehicle of its ilk. Easy to disconnect and reconnect and you don't have to worry about the transmission, just remember to apply handbrake before doing either.

Cheers
Tony

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by chriscraw

mmmm so the fact that (in theory at least) the fact that I would be hauling fewer pounds will still require the same energy or work per unit of time?

Not sure how you come to the conclusion that lifting some weigh on to a dolly reduces the load you are towing.

[Wingeezer]

Surely you are hauling more weight if you are towing both a car and a dolly - no?

Brian.

[Vycan]

Tony is right.

The Saturn SL and SW were made for four on the floor towing. We have one, and we love it. They are decently easy to maintain, as long as you know the quirks of the engine. Otherwise you might chase lights and errors. If you know them, they are very easy to maintain. Also they have a curb weight of only 2,500 lbs. you'd be hard pressed to find anything with that kind of curb weight, that comes ready to tow.

They are also very cheap and reliable. I bought two both around $2k, one's an auto for the missus. The other's a manual, and I take it back and forth to work. Get between 30-33mpg.

[JCWDCW]

Most HP used at Hwy Speeds is to overcome air resistance. That's why mileage goes down as speed goes up; air resistance climbs asymptotically with speed . Same HP required to overcome rolling resistance at any speed. However, more weight; more HP to get up hill. Work = lbs x change in height. More work -more HP required
JCW

[Dan and Liz]

The only difference is the weight of a trailer vs weight of a dolly.

[Alluminati]

When you weigh yourself on the bathroom scale, do you stand on one foot or two? How much less do you weigh if you stand on only one leg?

Or you could consider that your dolly will be a lot heavier if you put the front wheels of a car on it.

[chriscraw]

Originally Posted by Alluminati

When you weigh yourself on the bathroom scale, do you stand on one foot or two? How much less do you weigh if you stand on only one leg?

Or you could consider that your dolly will be a lot heavier if you put the front wheels of a car on it.

Now that explains why I thought I'd lost nearly 60 lbs since Christmas using my bathroom scale gift.....my scale divides my weight by the number of feet standing on the scale!

[chriscraw]

OK my fellow Classic owners and luvvers....guess I was not trying to add to the family's collection of vehicles by buying something to drag behind the 350LE!
Current family cars are all automatic hence the suggestion of a dolly tow but given the conclusions offered by my erstwhile colleagues, seems that all I would save with trailer vs dolly is the actual trailer/dolly weight difference which is a bummer!
So, with all due respect, towing any Saturn wheels down behind my gorgeous 350LE would, in my humble opinion, be a hideous crime! (apologies to my fellow Classic owners!).
So, having decided that anything other than a silver Porsche hanging off the rear of the 350LE, I'm prepared to add 400-500 lbs so as to have a manual silver VW Beetle fitted with a Blue Ox tow bar added to the family's collection!
Why is the VW some 400-500 lbs heavier than a VW Beetle?

[Isuzusweet]

Hmmmm, I thought Aluminitus was a bad thing to have all on its own but to compound that with Virtually Worthless Bugitus is going to require some extensively medical bills in the future, and some serious joking around.

According to a new poll 91 percent of people are satisfied with their lives. The other 9 percent own a Volkswagen.

There's nothing wrong with Saturns....it shows that your smart and frugal.

and what VW is 400-500 lbs heavier than a VW Beetle??????????? You need help!

Cheers
Tony

[chriscraw]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Hmmmm, I thought Aluminitus was a bad thing to have all on its own but to compound that with Virtually Worthless Bugitus is going to require some extensively medical bills in the future, and some serious joking around.

According to a new poll 91 percent of people are satisfied with their lives. The other 9 percent own a Volkswagen.

There's nothing wrong with Saturns....it shows that your smart and frugal.

and what VW is 400-500 lbs heavier than a VW Beetle??????????? You need help!

Cheers
Tony

Tony..my basic (but essential research) seemed to weigh the average Saturn at around 2400 lbs and the VW Beetle at 3000 lbs
My wife had the unfortunate experience of owning a Saturn Astra (actually an Opel)..this experience has left us all a little shaken and unwilling to set foot in another Saturn ever!

[Vycan]

Every make has a bad experience. I could regale you with stories of angry "insert brand" vehicle owners. Really what it comes down to is what you want and what the coach can pull. The S chassis Saturn is by far the best toad for your money. Yet I understand the appeal of having a Porsche to roll around in too!

[tevake]

For me the extra 1,000 to 2,500 lbs of a dolly or trailer was a nonstarter.
Tho towing with a trailer would let you back up, a plus.
But would be a third vehicle to be parked when not being used.
Plus anouther tag, registration, ins. to be maintained

Older 911s came in around 2,500 lbs and can tow four down.
Stylistically a good fit to my eye.

Makes for a lot of conversations while stopped.

The old classic mini would be a nice fit also.

Cheers Richard

You guys know it doesn't take much for me to post a pic of my rig

[bobmiller1]

Great looking rig....love the paint. Just to throw a fly in the ointment I tie my volt behind the 325LE on a dolly. The added bonus is I get to charge it a the campground while we are there, very few trips exceed the 50 mile charge range so it is great. The tow doily has disc surge brakes and works awesome. I did reinforce the hitch before I started to use it and I plan on using the same car for towing behind the 370LE

[tevake]

Thanks Bob, the dark green that Ravson put over the maroon does look good to me too. That's the "good side". As the clear coat is really patchy on the other side. Really want to clean up the look but not interested in living with a polished rig.

One upside of these modern alternate fuel vehicles is the presuit of lightness, in the quest of good fuel consumption. But also plays into our need of towable vehicles.

Cheers Richard