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Old 09-28-2015, 09:46 AM   #1
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1974 20' Argosy 20
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What appliances/furnishings would you do without?

Soon it will be getting to the point where I will need to figure out some sort of floor plan for my 20' Argosy. It's pretty obvious that a 20' motorhome can't pack as many features as a 26' or 31' motorhome can.

After seeing pictures of Martin's 20' rebuild it's pretty clear that the space in a 20' can be greatly enhanced from what the factory provided. What I would like to know is of the following items listed below which ones could you most do without? For myself I'm beginning to think the range top/oven combo or even just the range top could easily be eliminated and a microwave used for cooking needs.

So, any thoughts on which items below you would be willing to forgo if space was a limitation?

Range top only
Range top/oven combo
Fridge
Sink
Microwave
Bathroom/shower combo
Full length closet
Bed(s)
Generator
Table/dinette

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:54 AM   #2
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Hey Brad,

I guess everybody will have their own take on this. For us:

The oven could go, we tried use it once and could not get it to light. Have lived nicely without it. Could not get along without the stovetop.

We use the microwave at home quite a bit. Not so much in the 310. Wouldn't miss it.

I could live without the full length closet, my wife probably would not agree.

The generator is kind of a toss up. We tend to drive almost as much as we camp when we are travelling, so the batteries stay charged and we get by without the generator most of the time. As often as not, when we are using the 310 I have to remember to run the generator once just as PM. If we had an inverter for the odd time that we need 110 v current, the generator could theoretically go, but we will keep it in case we end up in hot weather.

We need everything else on your list, including the bed.
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:13 PM   #3
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Steve, thanks for the feedback.

I guess I'm a little surprised by the microwave comment. I guess I just assumed that would be a must keep. Since I'm not much at meal preparation (if it's not microwavable I probably don't eat it!) I'm sorta inclined to eliminate the range/oven completely.

I take it you don't need the extra cooling while driving provided by the roof top A/C units. It will be interesting to see if that's the case with more people.

By the way I still have that awning rail if you need it

Brad
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:10 PM   #4
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I can back Steve up around the oven and microwave; we decided we could live without both but did include a small toaster oven (only 700watt - has its own storage cubby) along with the twin burner/sink combo. That said we also carry an outdoor combo grill (which either runs as a two burner outdoor grill or a single burner plus hotplate or a gas grill) and expect to use the outdoor grill to cook evening meals.

We do have a narrow/deep full height closet but that is more so we can store the poles and fabric for the 'rope and pole' awning and we carry matching windbreaks to give some privacy....the awning and windbreak poles around around 42" long so would not fit anywhere other than the back of the closet. This also allows us to store two large IKEA DIMPA storage bags (one hangs on the pole, one sits on the floor) in the closet; one each with all our clothes etc. Means we can unpack Bella (remove all our clothes) by removing two bags.
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:32 PM   #5
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Martin, what is a twin burner/sink combo?

My Argosy has a really small propane tank (10 gallons I think) so anything I can do to eliminate propane appliances would be nice. My water heater is a combo gas/electric so that should save on propane.

Your usage of the closet makes sense and as far as clothes storage I've traveled a good portion of my adult life so I'm sorta used to living out of a travel bag.

Do you carry an electric hot plate?

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:45 PM   #6
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Embedded in the countertop is a CRAMER CE00-MINI/BO-HI/27-I-G combo burner and sink (CRAMER are one of the Dometic subsidiaries in Europe, like SMEV and Waeco)



This gives a two burner cooktop (the big ring takes upto a 12" pan, the small around a 8" - and we have a stackable pan set from Tefal (called T-Fal in the US) called the Ingenio that has handles that are removable) and sink in a 24" by 18" space, which stays covered when not in use to give extra countertop.

So in the 'kitchen' we have a tri-power Dometic RM4223 fridge, with cutlery draw above; the burner/sink combo and an inset waste bin above the double cupboard, and a Atwood Excalibur 8500 furnance in the kick space; the 'draw' unit actually houses an Atwood On-Demand water heater (behind the lowest draw front), pans/plates in the middle draw, toaster oven in the top draw.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:57 PM   #7
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I would get rid of the shower.
A toilet is desirable, and sometimes an ASAP necessity, but not a shower.
A shower wastes water, or..... you have to take one of those lousy on/off/on/off showers where you freeze, and then remain kind of soapy and itchy all day.
Without a shower you seldom need a dump station.
Without a shower, you seldom need to fill the FW tank.
When I was a kid and we camped in a travel trailer, there was one sink by the range, and you washed in it, quite easily and quickly, with a tiny amount of water. We still do that when we camp in the 345.
Sure, every few days you still feel like a real shower, but all over North America you find truck stops with clean, excellent showers for a small amount of money.
I would get rid of the shower. We never use ours.

PS. I guess I should add that we never ever stay in a hook-up type campground, when a shower might be a more practical proposition. But my understanding is that it is rare to find a campground without available showers on site.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
.....
So, any thoughts on which items below you would be willing to forgo if space was a limitation?

Range top only
Range top/oven combo
Fridge
Sink
Microwave
Bathroom/shower combo
Full length closet
Bed(s)
Generator
Table/dinette
Thanks!
Brad
Brad, for 25+ years I was a real happy camper in a VW microbus. Went camping hundreds of times and drove across europe, north Africa and the US. So the questions, I would ask myself are:
what will the main usage be and how many people (and pets) will be traveling. Is it just for my use or do I have resell value in mind?
A very comfortable rear table/bed combo will leave you with a lot of space in the front. I personally would eliminate the separate living space in the front and only use the 2 driving chairs to turn 90 degrees and have a little removable table in between. This will allow you to keep the bathroom were it is and have a generous kitchen with all the good appliances to boot.
Look at this german camper, its about the same size as your 20'
1984 Wohnwagen Eriba-Nova 21 foot

Here is a picture of the rear bedroom, I envision
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:00 PM   #9
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Just started on my renovation - Yesterday the first thing I took out was the Stove/Oven. Microwave was already missing. Wife wants a induction plate and a convection microwave . New sink forthcoming, just not sure single or double.
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:08 PM   #10
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Martin... I have seen a few pictures of your great conversion now. I wish you would start a picture-rich thread with the Full Monty ...... I love the design, colors, floorplan and now this cooktop/sink. Great work!
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:25 PM   #11
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Martin... I have seen a few pictures of your great conversion now. I wish you would start a picture-rich thread with the Full Monty ...... I love the design, colors, floorplan and now this cooktop/sink. Great work!
I am trying to do that with the 'specific feature' posts on the re-build thread...still more of those to come!

One tip I would give anyone doing a rebuild is look further a field than US offerings on appliances; the Europeans have being building small campers/caravans for many many years. For example here is a link to the European Dometic appliance broucher - 244 pages of sinks, cooktops, fridges/freezers, A/C etc (http://www.dometic.com/QBankFiles3/E...m-EN_10254.pdf)
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:41 PM   #12
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By the way I still have that awning rail if you need it

Brad
Thank you, I do. We will start east from Montana this spring, but it might take us a year or so to get to you. If you need to get rid of it in the meantime, please do.

One appliance that you didn't mention: furnace. Ours doesn't work. I plan to buy a catalytic heater that runs on little propane bottles for our run from Montana to Salt Lake in March. My Montana nephew has been using these heaters for years and likes them, supposed to be safe indoors. If it works out, both the oven and the furnace underneath it can go.
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:55 PM   #13
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Thank you, I do. We will start east from Montana this spring, but it might take us a year or so to get to you. If you need to get rid of it in the meantime, please do.

One appliance that you didn't mention: furnace. Ours doesn't work. I plan to buy a catalytic heater that runs on little propane bottles for our run from Montana to Salt Lake in March. My Montana nephew has been using these heaters for years and likes them, supposed to be safe indoors. If it works out, both the oven and the furnace underneath it can go.

You are no doubt well aware of this, so please excuse my mentioning it: If you buy a catalytic heater, it must be one that vents to the outside, if you don't want huge moisture problems. Each pound of propane burned produces 1.6 pounds of water.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:28 AM   #14
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We could probably lose the microwave, one of the full length closets, dont have a dinette but if we did it could go..........I think thats about it from your list. We do use the oven, wife likes to bake and has done biscuits and cookies and stuff. Boy, you really have to prioritize in that 20 footer.

Mike
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