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53flyingcloud · 07-20-2005, 06:15 PM

My last new VW was a 71 Super bug and, as I recalled, it cost about a dollar a pound..lol
This was back just before they later slipped over 2k for cost..
lov the thought of 53 bug color scheme..Naturally~!!~
ciao
53FC

smily · 07-20-2005, 06:49 PM

SWEBSTER, I am scared now!

I just looked at your pix and I could be wrong but the only thing holding your VW is the two welds at the pivot points of your tow bracket.
I think I will post some photos of my tow bracket and I believe it will be apparent the difference of your brackets and the one on my saturn.

I have in the past purchased one of those 75 dollar tow bar assemblies on ebay and welded a bracket on the Toad, I was not comforatable with the set up and replaced with much heavier duty tow bracket. The 75 dollar bracket I refer too was probably three times as strong as the one in the pix you posted.

Respectfully, I apologize for the strong and candid opinion but I would not say it if I did not think so.

THAT IS SCARY!

overlander63 · 07-20-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 59toaster

Your sure its a 71? (I know that sounds dumb). I thought the reflectors off the bumper brackets was a 1970 only thing on regular beetle. Was it like Oct 1970 build date (making it a 71 model) maybe?

I thing the vent being behind the rear windows was a 1970 was first year as well.

Cool find. Great cars and really starting to come up in value if they are in any kind of shape.

1968-1969 had small front turn signal lenses.
1970-1977 had the elongated front turn signal lens.
1970 had the reflector on the bumper, but no reflector on the side of the taillight housing.
1971-72 had the reflector on the taillight housing.
1973-1977 had the large round taillights.
1975-77 had fuel injection badges on the engine compartment cover.
1971 Super Beetle had a flat windshield (only year, all others had rounded windshields).
And you thought they all were the same!

driftwood · 07-20-2005, 08:12 PM

This is an interesting thread ...

Great looking VW, I'm sure it will serve you well.

I am curious about one thing though. I haven't owned a MH since selling my last one (2001 - 36' SOB) that towed a Range Rover. I had running lights & signals that worked in concert with the MH. It towed like a dream.

In the past few years, have 'THEY' come out with some rules & requlations that now require the towed vehicle to have operational brakes that function in concert with the MH? I was under the impression that some or all states were going to require this.

swebster · 07-20-2005, 10:03 PM

Ken,
I appreciate your opinion. Please post the pic. I have, however, researched this quite a bit (joining a VW forum like this one and reading all the posts on towing, talking to the PO in detail and reading up on towing in back issues of VW Mags, etc). Believe it or not this is "the way" almost all Beetles are flat towed. In fact that bar has been towing around my beetle for over a year with the PO. This bar is made specifically for the Super Beetle. There is another bar for Standard Beetles which clamps to the lower torsion bar but it's pretty much the same bar.

I still have the 5000# bar but figuring out the mounting would require something custom. I'm not sure given the documented history and instructions out there about towing a VW Beetle with this setup that this is not the correct way to go.

Norm,
Found this like a while back about supplemental brake requirements by state: http://www.rvsafety.com/StateBrakeLaw.htm. Seems like most state fall back on trailer laws which means anything over 3000#s need breaks for almost every state. Some states are more, a few are down around 1500#s. All states require safety chains and lights.

Terry - know a bit about these little guys huh?

swebster · 07-20-2005, 10:11 PM

FC - Hard to find anything running without holes in the floors for $2K now. As soon as you get into standards and early models the prices really shoot up. But man are those bucket headlights and blade bumpers with the over-riders sweet looking. Someday.....when I have more time maybe.

C Johnson · 07-20-2005, 10:38 PM

I just had to say thats a sweet ride that you have there. I had a line on a conv. but the Caravel restore took priority !

Chris

smily · 07-21-2005, 07:51 AM

There is no doubt in my mind that the tow bar assembly is sufficient to tow a VW.

As I said, I would probably use it myself. My concern is that if you had an emergency arise, (I hope not), I think the VW would have its way with that tow bar, IMHO it is not attached in very sufficient manner.

Would you agree that the welds or those little pieces of metal at the pivot point would give way under the stress of your 1600+ lb VW rolling over? Do you believe that that bar would prevent the VW from rolling over?
I feel comforatable that a multi point (read more than two) connection, along with a tow bar that will not pivot at the ball, would prevent the vehicle from rolling over.

The tow bar I have is square and there is no ball on the hitch. It connects directly to the receiver and can only swing horizontally.

I am glad to hear that you will be implementing some back up or failure contingency devices.

I am no authority on tow bars, only know what I have researched and heard stories of (of course they are stories

). Again I apologize for being a pessimist. Just want you to have that nice tow vehicle with you when you arrive to your destination.

ALANSD · 07-21-2005, 11:35 AM

Norm- to my knowledge that is State specific.There are states that require you to have a brake system or brake buddy type thing in your towed ride.

shadejo · 07-22-2005, 09:54 AM

Love the look of the bug with the airstream. My wife had her silver New Beetle before we bought our 345 earlier this year. PO had already reinforced chassis for heavier towing so I set up her car for towing and so far it works (and looks !) great. She's really love to have a Beetle Convertible in Silver but that will have to wait for a couple of years!

smily · 07-22-2005, 10:07 AM

http://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdf/85-1168.pdf

This is the tow bar I use

and these tow brackets. As you can see there are four bolts per side that attach to the frame and other supports of the vehicle

http://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdfinst/154-2.pdf

swebster · 07-22-2005, 10:41 AM

shadejo - nice rig! Would you share with us what you had done for re-inforcement? Many of us our limited by the low tow capacity of the frame and I for one would like to see what was done to improve the strength of the frame extensions.

Ken, thanks for the pics.

shadejo · 07-22-2005, 11:00 AM

Since I am not sure exactly what the underside looked like prior, I can't say for sure the exact changes. I spent some time lying on a creeper a couple weeks back and inspecting the rear for any cracks, bad welds, fatigue and found no problems. The main thing I noticed was heavy gusseting (plates with about 8 to 10 bolts - maybe some were added) on either side of the extension of the chassis. The hitch socket at the back was also tied back into the frame with some additional plating. Unfortuately I have no pictures and don't think my cheap digital camera will allow any given the fact I can't get far enough away from the areas while lying under the rig!

Incidentally, I was aware of the official 2000 lb towing limit when I bought the rig but has anyone ever understood what specifically caused that limitation? Specifically, with the large overhang I have no doubt that a heavy tongue load would be bad news. There is lots of weight from the rig itself on that chassis extension and it provides a long lever arm back to the rear wheels and tag axle. On the other hand, for flat towing, the chassis is primarily in tension (or compression on braking). It is also subject to some side loading when turning but I can't believe this is that big an issue, the extension members are still pretty large (mind you I am only towing 2900 pounds, I wouldn't recommend towing a large SUV, but then you would be asking for powertrain problems as well)

Right now, our 345 seems to be quite content with the Beetle tagging along. I'll get a chance to examine it after a longer trip shortly as we are heading from Ottawa to the East coast with it in about a weeks time.

John

swebster · 07-22-2005, 12:12 PM

John,
While there is no known or official reason from JC for the limit (it is what it is) your thinking is in line with the common theories on the forum from other 325/345 owners. It is indeed a major limitation for many and any proven improvements or upgrades are of great interest.

Incidentally, we'll be heading to the East Coast next week as well. Headed to MA, NH, then Maine. Perhaps we'll see you on the road. We'll be the 345 with the [old] Beetle in tow.

By the way - welcome to the forums!

shadejo · 07-24-2005, 07:27 PM

Thanks Steven, was out of town for the weekend and doing some last minute maintenance on our rig.

While we will not be down MA, NH way this trip, we hope to travel in the area you are this fall! And of course, we'll be the 345 with the New Beetle in tow!

Happy travels!
John

GlenCoombe · 07-25-2005, 05:24 AM

DonMar RV my local Airstream Dealer has no less than 5 New Beetle models for sale. Only one is an automatic.

The star of the mini fleet is a silver S Turbo. This Silver bug is a six speed 240 HP bullet!! It is a 2003 and is priced at $18,000 and has only 5,000 miles on it.

Give Don a call if you're looking for the ultimate toad, 803-453-5011.

maxandgeorgia · 07-25-2005, 06:19 AM

Sweet bug. Maybe we all have a VW story in our backgrounds? Ours was a red '63, bought the year we married. Do I ever wish we had it or could find another--also, my little '52 blue Chevy, my high school car. Whatever happened to them, I wonder!

wahoonc · 07-25-2005, 06:36 AM

smily,
we used to drag our baja bug all over the country with a small tow bar attached to welded brackets on the torsion beam, never had a failure or a weld crack.

We have had several VW's in the past and have started looking again, right now the wanna is a Jetta TDI wagon or Passat TDI, but I really want another Type 3 square back...anybody know how much they weigh or where to get the info?

And as far as towing all of the manual tranny bugs can be towed 4 down with not problems, dunno about the autostick or full automatic.

Aaron

swebster · 07-25-2005, 07:20 AM

Aaron,
Good to hear that you have have some experience with this towing setup. The more I look at it the more I think modifying a Road Master or Blue Ox system for the Beetle would not work. Seems like the bar would be at such a steep angle down to the car it would encourage the Beetle to submarine under the tail of the motorhome in a panic stop. I'd need an extreme drop hitch to line it up and since the long overhang on the 345 is a "tail dragger" already I think I'd be digging holes in the pavement wherever I went.

In any case, I have the wiring harness setup and plan a test run later this week to test everything out.

The guy I bought the beetle from is working on a Notchback now. It's a mess but I've seen [and own one of] his other work so I know it will be beautiful when he's done. Think I saw a squareback up there too....very rough.

Found this guy (and his cars) through www.thesamba.com. It's kind of like this forum but for VWs and it has tons of stuff for sale on it. Also found a manual for a 61 Type 3 on this site - it looks like its 2095 lbs for the square (see pic). Not sure on the autostick. My manual is pretty vague on towing the car with this transmission.

Hey....I have a 94 Golf 4 door (gasser) for sale....not a TDI but a reliable car. I bought it new. Just needs some love.

smily · 07-25-2005, 07:37 AM

My dad mad me pay for half of the sales price.

He taught me to drive in my aunts squareback and my first car was 71 Beetle. Man I had that thing jacked up in the rear with oversize tires and air shocks.

I had to put at least three engines in it. (Did I mention I was sixteen?) The first engine was my lesson that the red light with a "G" on it did not stand for low gas. It stands for problems with the generator (AKA alternator). And any "Bug" enthusiast knows that if the generator is not turning, the fan is not turning either. (did I mention that Bugs are Air Cooled?) I got that thing so hot, it would not shut off, it was literally dieseling. I had to stall the engine to get it to shut off.
But that ol'bug sure brought the ladies in......

Amazing what you can do in a bug