Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-26-2015, 03:32 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Losing air from leveling system

I know this subject has been discussed before, but I'm at a loss as to what to do or try next to control the air loss. This is what I have done already.
I have checked air lines, connections, airbags etc. with soupy solution could find no leaks. Have taken to two other shops and had tested they could find no leaks. Contacted Andy at Inland and purchased a new inline Air check valve, no difference. Was told by one of the repair shops that the holding tank may have a pin hole in it, so I had them replace it. That also made no difference.
The strange thing is, once in a while the coach will stay up for a day or two but most of the time it will be all the way down overnight. I can't figure out how it stays up once in a while, yet has such a large leak that it can go flat in a couple hours. Has anyone experienced a similar problem? Or a possible solution?
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 04:39 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
92landyacht's Avatar
 
1992 36' Land Yacht
Grayson , Georgia
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,719
Are you talking about the HWH jack leveling system or the airbags for ride control?

I had a loss in air pressure on my rear air bags. Or at least that what I thought. Turned out to be a break in the air line that went to the air pressure gauge. The air bags were inflating but the gauge showed no pressure. Found the break behind a thermal shield blanket by the radiator. Once I spliced in a connector at the break, all was good again.
92landyacht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 05:03 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
The air bags for Air ride. My compressor pumps right up to 95lbsand turns off. Its almost like if it stops in a certain position, it will hold the pressure, but if not in the right spot it loses its air.
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 05:06 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
Have you replaced he leveling valve(s)? That was the major problem on the 310 that I had. Once I replaced the valve it stayed up for several days at a time.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 06:20 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
Air leaks can be maddening to find. I have had two motorhomes with air suspension issues, one an '83 Airstream 310, the other a '75 GMC. I bought the 310 at a very good price, I think because no one could find why the rear end would not stay up, and the owner got so frustrated he dumped it.

The leak in the 310 that was most difficult to find was in the internal check valve in the compressor. I also had issues with the external check valve on that rig, causing other problems. Once I got it set up right, it would hold air pressure all winter when in storage for the season.

On the GMC, same deal, the internal compressor check valve. But on the GMC, a PO had added a air pressure gage inside so you could see what the pressure was running. After a lot of messing around I found that the rubber hose which went from the air tank to that gage was leaking all over. You could not see it, or hear it, but when you put soap solution on it, it bubbled like mad. I replaced it and could hold air for a month when sitting.

I never had leveling valve issues but they are a common problem, and hard to test for leaks, I understand.

All I can tell you is that isolation of parts and lines is the best way to find issues. Disconnect and plug lines, check if the system pressure goes down. If it does, work on that section. Remember, you may have multiple leaks too. Finding one does not mean the problem is solved. My GMC with it's elaborate air suspension and leveling system almost made me cry until I found that damn hose to the gage.

Best of luck on your hunt.
idroba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 09:24 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
I'm going with the leveling valve also. It is the part of the system that is constantly moving and there are several ports that must seal. You can attempt to spray the valve with soapy water but also put a hose on the exhaust port and put that in a can of water and watch for bubbles from an internal leak. Also remember that many of these valves have a 10 to 15 second delay to avoid discharging air at every bump. It takes patience.
Good luck.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 10:01 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
I haven't replaced the leveling valve. I have asked the shops to check it out as the possible problem but they could find nothing wrong with it. I have seen someone post the part number for the leveling valve and where to get it, but didn't find it yet.

The compressor internal check valve sounds very possible, and will look into that. Are these parts still readily available for these compressors or just complete new replacement?
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 04:38 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Found out they no longer have repair kits for my model air compressor. Has anyone replaced their compressor? If so what kind and where did you get it? Still haven't been able to find the post about Leveling Valve replacement part and source either, so if someone has any info on that would also be appreciated. Thanks for the in put from everyone, this has been a big pain in the butt.
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2015, 08:47 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
This is the compressor I use. VIAIR 450C IG Series Air Compressor Kit (12V, Intercooler Head, 100% Duty and Sealed) [45050] | $278.95 | SD Truck Springs | Leaf Springs, Helper Springs and Suspension Parts It's probably overkill but I like the 100% duty cycle at 100 psi. I've had it for several years with no problems.

Here is an assortment of leveling valves. https://www.heightcontrolvalve.com/m...-and-rv-30.htm They all do pretty much the same thing but matching the mounts makes the job easier. I can't say for your coach for sure but mine has a delay built in so you are not dumping air at every bump in the road. If you get yours out they should be able to match it .
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2015, 09:45 AM   #10
New Member
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
storrington , West Sussex
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1
Our compressor was disconnected before we bought it, we have to pump it up with a hand pump (keeps us fit) or at the garage. Recently we had a problem where it went down over night, I replaced the air inlet valve that solved it a bit, replaced the gage & that seems to have done the trick. The strange thing is we replaced the airbags with brand new ones last year & have only had a problem since then. If anyone has replaced their compressor on a 270 we'd like to know which one you used.. Thanks
jenny1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 08:00 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Thanks for the information on the leveling valves, I was able to match one up as a replacement. The information on the compressor was also quite helpful, my original compressor was made by Thomas Industries a TashAir compressor replacement was $955.50. So if the leveling valve doesn't help the ViAir compressor you recommended looks like a good replacement option at a lot less money. Thanks again Dan and I'll let you know how things work out on the air loss.
Randy
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2015, 09:23 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
Anytime Randy. As a point of interest I was reading somewhere that a minimal air loss in new air springs and leveling valves is acceptable. Also an air brake system on a truck is allowed a small air loss. The CDL drivers daily inspection requires an air loss test with the system up to pressure and the engine off and another test with the system up to pressure, engine off and brakes applied. A couple of lbs. loss over three minutes is acceptable. I would have to look up the exact numbers as they are different for static, brakes applied, and trailer connected and I have slept many times since I last had to do an inspection.

It is nice to have a tight system that keeps the suspension inflated for extended periods but a slow bleed down does not necessarily mean the system has failed. These systems are designed to have an onboard compressor to continually supply the necessary compressed air.

It's time to go camping.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 01:30 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Dan, when ordering the leveling valve from Dayton Air Control Products, I was talking to one of their Tech's Rob. He said it was unusual for these switches to ever leak unless , (1)they were a plastic body version, which I don't have or(2) they are so old that the gaskets had become brittle and hard. While talking with him the information on the valve that was to replace mine said it was non-dumping. My valve has this black plastic hose on it that I thought was where the air was dumped out when you put the coach up on its jacks. He said no that that air noise release was from the solenoids on my Leveling jacks which are HWH and that these solenoids on the jacks sometime leak air. I called HWH to check that information out, HWH has a two to three week out return call back up so I haven't heard back yet.
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 02:26 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
92landyacht's Avatar
 
1992 36' Land Yacht
Grayson , Georgia
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,719
It always amazed me how HWH can be so backlogged all the time. Really a little annoying. I had to wait 3 weeks for a call back just to let me know I can send a jack back for rebuild. Really poor customer service if you ask me.
92landyacht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 06:18 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
I agree with you completely. When I didn't hear back from them after three days I called back and that was when they told me about the two to three week back log, I thought why didn't you tell me that on the first conversation. I really like the way the HWH system works (when it works) and they are supposed to be a very good product, top of the line. But if half of their units in service are like mine with all it quirks I can believe they can be that back logged. Yes very annoying!
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 08:04 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
You will have to refresh my mind a bit. Are you on a full air suspension or springs modified with air bags in the rear and coils with air bags inside the coils up front? If full air is your leveling with jacks or by controlling air bag height?

Usually with an add on system like the older classics you don't dump the bags, just extend the hydraulic jacks to level. They have solenoids but no air in the system.

My understanding is that the HWH system with full air used the air bags to level not jacks. There are many new systems available today but I don't think they were available back in the early 90's.

Like the guy said these valves are pretty dependable but your coach is 20 plus years old so seals do get old. Many years ago you could get kits to rebuild leveling valves but as the cost of labor grew to exceed the value of the valves that all went away. The small tube is just the release air for valve adjustments while going down the road, to dump air you would need a much larger port as it would take a long time through the little tube.

Talking to technicians can be difficult sometimes because they are used to dealing with new systems rather then our old antiques. Over the hill types like me don't keep up with the new stuff but are more comfortable with the simple older stuff.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 08:35 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Dan, my coach is a modified air ride the rear end has no springs. The front end had the coil springs with air bags inside that I replaced with the Henderson coil springs that eliminated the air bags. My HWH is hydraulic and do not use the rear air bags for leveling, so when pressure is taken off the rear end the air is dumped from the system.
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2015, 08:57 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
Unless there is a dump control I would guess that the valve is just releasing air trying to level the coach because the valve is sensing the coach is too high. A dump valve will lower the coach all the way to the stops in less then five seconds. For an example find a local transit bus that has a kneeling front end for the handicapped, they drop down right now.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 04:48 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
gloran's Avatar
 
1993 33' Land Yacht
Midland , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Dan, have you ever heard of the line leaking behind the dash air gauge? and if so how does one go about removing the gauge to check it?
No luck in finding the leak. I replaced the compressor and rear levering valve and I am still losing air somewhere, checked every thing in the back and don't think its leaking any where back there, must be up front somewhere.
__________________
gloran - 1993 LY MH 33' - Banks System, Steer Safe, IPD front stabilizer, Super Steer - Bell Cranks, Motion Control, Coil

https://s1290.photobucket.com/user/gl...58808196506793
gloran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2015, 08:10 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
My dash gauge is fed by a 1/8" plastic line which I assume has a compression fitting however I have never had it out so I can only guess without crawling under the dash. I did add a small regulator up front to feed the bags in the front springs. I cut the 1/8" line and used a push in type "T" and other push in fittings to connect the regulator and bags. I don't think there was much in the way of push in fitting available 33 years ago when my coach was built.

My system pressure will drop some overnight but the rear bags will hold for several days. As I have said these systems are considered to be acceptable with a certain amount of leaking. When you are parking do you set the jacks or just shut the engine off? If your jacks are not set I would guess the problem is between the bags and the leveling valve. If the valve arm is indicating the proper ride height even with no air in the tank the valve will hold the air in the bags. If you set the jacks that will tell the valve the ride height has changed and it will try to release air to correct the height.

You might try parking with jacks up and drain the air tank and see if the valve and bags hold. You could even pull the discharge line from the compressor to see if any air is leaking back. Another test would be to disconnect the bags from the valve and install a temporary Schrader valve and inflate the bags and see if they stay up. It gets a little tedious but you should be able to isolate the problem.

Another thought is find where the gauge source is connected at the rear of the coach and disconnect it to isolate it from the system.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aluminum leveling block system ashe Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 1 11-15-2009 10:22 PM
Air Leveling System on TV when towing OB Bambi Tow Vehicles 1 05-23-2009 10:59 PM
air bag leveling system jagcb750 Classic Motorhomes 58 04-27-2008 03:48 PM
A & E Leveling system lock-up ? drcharles2 Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 1 04-11-2004 04:15 PM
hydraulic leveling system kooblekidz Airstream Motorhome Forums 4 02-27-2003 01:52 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.