Craftsmanship and work ethics

[ROBERT CROSS]

You've never really been pinched, 'til you've been pinched by a ZipDee.

Bob

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

You've never really been pinched, 'til you've been pinched by a ZipDee.

Bob

Did that on our first trip out. Hurt like crazy but 3 band aids stopped the bleeding eventually :-)

User error I'm sure...thankfully, not a lot of kids at the campground in that moment :%#}*%_:

[mstephens]

What's the 25-foot trailer which is superior to the Airstream today?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by mstephens

What's the 25-foot trailer which is superior to the Airstream today?

None.

doug k

[2005 ford]

Originally Posted by mstephens

What's the 25-foot trailer which is superior to the Airstream today?

I have only read about the Arctic Fox line of trailers with all composite/aluminum, thermo pane windows, heated tanks. Would like to see one in person to see the quality of the "fit&finish".

[JFScheck]

At the end of the day it boils down to a hand built product, none two are exactly alike, and a good 6 months to work out the fit and finish bugs....

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by 2005 ford

I have only read about the Arctic Fox line of trailers with all composite/aluminum, thermo pane windows, heated tanks. Would like to see one in person to see the quality of the "fit&finish".

Two of my friends bought new ones in 2011, some tires wore out in 1,000 miles so Arctic Fox put heavier axles on for them. A series of ongoing maintenance issues, leaking toilet, stuck slide, electrical. We had some clearance light moisture and a loose door hinge the first year, camping with them.

The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.

doug k

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by dkottum

None.

doug k

Exactly. Before we laid down the heavy cash for a new Flying Cloud, we looked at all brands and styles of new trailers including some of the so-called high-tech ones (now out of business!) and there was not even a close race comparing them "as they sat." Which means, not knowing what might be wrong with them potentially.

I already knew that the manufacturing quantities of this were so absurdly small that they would be a hand made product - no two identical. That means it isn't going to be like buying a Honda Civic made by precision robotics on a nearly faultless automated line.

The second thing to notice is that it is an assemblage of parts made by others. The whole RV industry uses the same set of internal parts out of the same catalogs. Refers, heaters, stoves, vents, electrical parts, TVs, stereos, awnings, toilets, monitors, fans, and dozens of others. You can see this when they hand you the "briefcase" full of manuals. So now you have the "weak link in the chain" effect to deal with too. But that's standard across the industry, so nothing you can do about that.

When people see a $75,000 or $95,000 price tag for something on wheels, they think (incorrectly) in car terms. $75k is a lot for a car, and your expectation rightly should be sky high knowing that cars are built more or less by computers. But for an RV, $75k is not so much. And RVs ain't nothing like building cars.

A better comparison is to look at the construction of a new home. Homes are also built by hand - one off - cut and fit, or whatever you want to call it, and they carry very high price tags, and they are filled with third party components. Look behind the walls of a new home folks! If you don't find half a dozen beer cans along with the candy wrappers you musta bought yours in a different country.

I watched out last new home being built and it was a sad, sad operation. Errors covered up by errors, which are creamed over by more errors is how I would describe it. Yet, when it was done and handed over, it was "functional" and more or less ok for its purpose and relative to other houses, was on a par. Now, that was $300,000. It would be absurd to have walked around saying, "$300,000 and they left beer cans in the studs! What poor quality!" Cuz, it wasn't a $300,000 Bugatti, it was a $300,000 stick built, suburban new home in the 21st century.

I think Airstream does a good job at building these in such low volume. If they were making 100,000 units a year on a automated line, I think you could expect them to be like a Honda Civic - nearly perfect. But with hand labor, and keeping the price to a reasonable amount?

I don't see any company out there doing it better. If I did, I'd probably own that one.

[Gene]

There is a website that rates RV's. It is not well known and the sample is not all that big, but it is the only one I've found: RV Rating - Customer Survey of RV Makes and Models

Airstream rates 61.6 out of 75, but that appears to be about average. The number is brought up by components of the rating on design and ease of towing (that relates to design). The design was created generations ago, not by the present owners. Arctic Fox gets a 68.6.

Conventional wisdom is that reviews are more negative on websites because mostly complainers post reviews. Trip Advisor found that not to be true at all—reviews on their website average higher than average. That may be true of this and other review sites. On the review site I gave the link to, most are rated above 50 with few below that. So the average is not 37.5 out of 75, but more like low 60's, just where Airstream is. I looked up a few other Thor products and they rate a little below Airstream down into the 50's.

Gene

[cwf]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Two of my friends bought new ones in 2011, some tires wore out in 1,000 miles so Arctic Fox put heavier axles on for them. A series of ongoing maintenance issues, leaking toilet, stuck slide, electrical. We had some clearance light moisture and a loose door hinge the first year, camping with them.

The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.

doug k

Agreed Doug... "The grass may be 'greener' on the other side of the fence, but it often chokes your MOWER!"

[TG Twinkie]

A$'s are NOT hand made any more than any other trailer. They are assembled in most part by hand, as are other trailers.
The parts are fabricated in a jig or on a computer controlled machine for uniformity. That'a why you can buy a new segment and install it on a trailer made years ago.
Most travel trailers have "after built" issues.
Any comparison of A$ trailers to other brands such as Arctic Fox are not really equal comparisons. Since in most cases you can buy 2 1/2 Arctic Fox units for the price of one A$.
When one pays 2 1/2 times as much for anything, one would expect to get that much more in quality of fit and finish. At least, I do.
I don't want to pay Cadillac prices and get a Chevy. Don't get me wrong, I think that a Chevy is an OK product. But, it's not a Caddy.

[Aage]

The funny thing is that buying a Cadillac doesn't mean you get fewer problems than with a Chevrolet. In fact, since there are usually so many more jeejaws on a Caddy than a Chev, the opposite is more often true..

[TG Twinkie]

Exactly! that's my point.

[Tim A.]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

When one pays 2 1/2 times as much for anything, one would expect to get that much more in quality of fit and finish. At least, I do.
I don't want to pay Cadillac prices and get a Chevy. Don't get me wrong, I think that a Chevy is an OK product. But, it's not a Caddy.

I don't understand why you are so irritated with Airstream. Nobody is requiring you to buy a new one.

Several people in this thread have indicated that they chose to buy an Airstream after looking at number of other trailers. When we bought ours new 11 years ago, it was considerably more expensive than other trailers of similar size. Do you think we buyers are particularly naive or gullible to have paid the premium for our Airstreams?

We love our Airstream and have since the day we bought it. Would we buy again at today's prices? Yes, except we don't need to because ours still looks practically new and has all the improvements we have made to it. And those are improvements and are not changes to make up for low quality in the trailer.

Tim

[TG Twinkie]

If I am irritated. It's because A$'s have a long history with their name. But that long history also includes the same problems in the product that it has had for many decades.
If I am irritated. It is because A$ has done nothing to resolve the rotten floor problems and others that plaque the brand.
If I am irritated. It's because we as consumers continue to buy their products in spite of these issues. Only because we have been sold on the idea that they are built to last for years. And based on that idea we are willing to pay the high initial price. Then are told we have to take it to Jackson Center if we want to have repairs made.
If I am irritated it's because of the stories I see here about the poor service given to SOME buyers by SOME dealers.
I am sure that A$ is not the only brand that has happy buyers.
I am also sure that there are plenty of OB's out there with poor service and dealerships.
If I am furious. It's because we put up with this list of on going problems and defend with our last breathe this particular product.
But we would NOT put up with it. When it comes to our cars and trucks. That is why we have "LEMON LAWS" for our vehicles.
My A$ product is 39 years old and is still on the road. It is still in reasonably good shape. I have spent considerable time and $$$ to make it that way. Which I expected when I bought this unit.
I am glad you are happy with your purchase and would buy another.

[switz]

Years before our actual purchase, I acquired the sales literature of Airstream because of the "image". It is truly a unique visual experience. I knew nothing else about their products. I had never even camped in a trailer.

Having acquired our unit, the only gripe I have is my own fault. If I had "walked" the lot before purchase instead of looking at a floor plan from the UK, I would have seen that the 25FB bed has access issues that do not exist in a 27FB or larger because of orientation.

We still think it is great. I have the local dealer doing a through first "annual" inspection while installing a Maxim skylight and a custom rear cabinet by the door like on the 27FB Classic to store a pair of ZipDee chairs and better utilize the space and give another flat area to put "stuff".

Could their be improvements, you bet. You kind folks on this forum have shared your experiences and I have dutifully trotted out to wherever to acquire recommended upgraded equipment and installed same. As a result of these shared experiences, I have great tires, a Hensley Arrow hitch, a better battery charger, better switching electronics and surge protection, upgraded plumbing like water heater components etc. The modification list is ever growing.

I see all this as part of the customization process. This is all part of learning about a new activity that does have significant cost factors associated with it and there will be surprises along the road, so to speak.

I did a similar modification process to attempt to use my existing Mercedes to tow by having the hitch modification done by CanAm. That did not work out so well due to weight issues. I have heavily modified my Dodge truck to do the same basic job of pulling my Airstream.

All part of the "experience". I am glad at my age to be still learning and being able to accept input that what I thought could be in error. Now that's a novel concept.

YMMV

[AKristine]

Great message - thanks!

I would be grateful if you would share a few facts....what kind of tires? What kind of battery charger? And, the upgraded plumbing...did you install or did the dealer? I am keeping a list of notes as I continue with the research. Many thanks for your kindesss! Kristine

[Jim Clark]

TG, you keep saying we, what do you mean we? Have you appointed yourself the Airstream Consumer Advocate?

[TG Twinkie]

Somebody has to do it. I am not alone in thinking that A$ needs to solve the on going problems of floor rot etc.
In the past 30 years or so. It seems that the OH WELL attitude has over taken this country. We have come to accept mediocre as the replacement for high quality work.
In general I feel that A$ products are above the mediocre level. But there is significant room for improvement.
Until the consumer demands more of A$, nothing will change.
A$ commands a high price for their product and the consumer should expect the quality to consistently meet the high price.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

Somebody has to do it. I am not alone in thinking that A$ needs to solve the on going problems of floor rot etc.
In the past 30 years or so. It seems that the OH WELL attitude has over taken this country. We have come to accept mediocre as the replacement for high quality work.
In general I feel that A$ products are above the mediocre level. But there is significant room for improvement.
Until the consumer demands more of A$, nothing will change.
A$ commands a high price for their product and the consumer should expect the quality to consistently meet the high price.

Yes, you should own it! Having a liaison between Thor/Airstream would benefit both the consumer and Airstream. An Advocate who would present the concerns and issues in a concise and informed manner would be such a benefit. We as owners of Airstream products would know that the information was being passed to Airstream. A single point of contact would enable recorded keeping and not present Airstream with multiple contacts involving the same issue. The Advocate would be a conduit to keep the consumer apprised of Airstreams resolutions to ongoing issues. Your thinking is clear and correct on the issue.